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Body-Turn to improve Topspin by CHN coach's lesson

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Ieyasu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ieyasu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2019 at 11:04pm
I'm with shaks on this one. MAYBE  Samsonov does not take as big of a waist turn as often as many others, but I think that training video is misleading.

This is just a random video selection from 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFFyQMvQvl8

I see Samsonov taking big waist turns on pushed balls, lobs, and other types of shots when it appears he has time (for example at around 12:33).

Edited to add... just saw your post above me. If you look at the video I supplied he is not taking big waist turns from bad positions. He is clearly doing it to harness more power.


Edited by Ieyasu - 03/17/2019 at 11:06pm
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2019 at 11:09pm
For the record, I believe the waist rotation can be a great source of power (I use it for loopkills too!). However after thinking about it due to videos by Li Sun (coach of multiple Grand Slam winners in the women CNT), which led me to understand the lower back torsion issue, it led me to think if the extra power was worth the risk. But maybe, with proper training our lower backs can withstand these torsional stresses if we manage the usage carefully? I don't know....

I'm not saying that waist rotation is completely wrong but it'll be good for us to understand the pros and cons of using it. There's a reason why the CNT no longer sees it as being reasonable, that Li Sun even openly admitted that they got it wrong in the past.... My understanding is that waist rotation (转腰) was one of the central tenets in Chinese FH loop philosophy, and now they're doing a complete 180 degree turn on that..

It's admittedly a really mind-blowing and controversial change for me too...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2019 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by Ieyasu Ieyasu wrote:

I'm with shaks on this one. MAYBE  Samsonov does not take as big of a waist turn as often as many others, but I think that training video is misleading.

This is just a random video selection from 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFFyQMvQvl8

I see Samsonov taking big waist turns on pushed balls, lobs, and other types of shots when it appears he has time (for example at around 12:33).

Edited to add... just saw your post above me. If you look at the video I supplied he is not taking big waist turns from bad positions. He is clearly doing it to harness more power.

Matches are different to training, he likely spends way more time training than matches. In terms of longterm overuse injuries, the matches probably are not so important as they are quite infrequent. In matches perhaps he feels that he needs that power to get an advantage and is OK in taking those risks....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/17/2019 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

there is that zeio thread too:

We used to have a sticky with that guy teaching a clinic in a Nordic country. I wonder that one went away and older ones less useful stayed.

Damn it's the exact same video I linked to, I even commented on it but didn't change my stroke lol....that said I wasn't playing much at that time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/18/2019 at 1:00am
I've dived into some medical journal papers to research the effect, and it seems (not sure if I'm reading them correctly?!) that it is indeed well recognized as one of the major risk factors for chronic lower back pain! I believe they call it "trunk axial rotation" in medical journals.

Won't post any links or PDF's because I'm nowhere near qualified, and would definitely be requesting for some medical professionals here to research the effect and potentially give some more useful information to us...

Edit: Baal could you give us a comment on this, as you seem to be the best person to talk about this?


Edited by blahness - 03/18/2019 at 2:19am
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