Changing to Chinese Forehand - Advice

Well, I am certainly no expert, but here's what I've learned in my attempt to emulate "Chinese technique":

The kinematic chain of the Chinese stroke is quite different than other approaches. (I know there are those here that would argue with me, but I will politely ignore them. As far as I can tell, it's just a simple fact.) Anyway, you'll therefore pretty much have to start over in many ways--from basic counter hitting to "advanced" loop kills, etc.

It requires much more footwork, which is an ongoing challenge in TT anyway, no matter what style you are trying to emulate. So basically take one of the toughest things to master in table tennis (footwork) and then implement a style that is more demanding in that regard than most other styles.

It requires taking the ball earlier off the bounce, meaning at the apex or even on the rise. This requires a different set of reflexes than what you might be used to (i.e., much faster reflexes) and a whole new timing. Timing is something that's often learned implicitly rather than explicitly, so it will feel awkward for a long time. You will get worse before you get better. Patience/perseverance are requisite.

There are probably other things I could think of, but I think you get the idea.

You may be quite capable of making the change, of course. I have no idea what your athleticism is like, your patience, or your ability to adapt. You may be fine. I'm just saying there is more involved than just switching rubbers and few minor details of your stroke. A coach knowledgeable in this style is strongly suggested, if not mandatory.

Still, not everyone who uses Chinese rubber utilizes flawless Chinese technique. The only way you'll really know if you want to switch is to get a sheet of hard tacky rubber on your FH and hit around with it for a couple months to really try to understand its characteristics.

A final caveat: I'm not a high level player (probably US 1500-1600). I've read a lot, talked to a lot of Chinese players, I study a lot of pro matches, and I've taken some lessons in my life. But I'm not anyone "special" in the world of competitive table tennis. So take my words with a grain of salt. This is just stuff I've picked up in my 3 or so years of compulsively studying Chinese table tennis.

cls2222 wrote: That is what I figured as well. I am around 6 feet tall, 175 lbs. and try to play a forehand dominated style with Euro rubber, so I train footwork a lot. I like looping over the table, but with a soft Euro rubber, this can be very risky. Basically, what I think, is that I would sacrifice speed and consistency to gain spin and an advantage in counter looping near the table. Wang Liqin and plenty of tall Chinese players can do it, so it is not impossible for a person my height to play this style. I guess the only way to find out is to slap on a sheet of H3 Neo Provincial and check it out.

I'm going to look like a crack dealer here, based on some other threads, but might I suggest Palio Thor's?

It's a harder, tacky rubber; however, it is also a tensor (made by ESN). It really plays like a hybrid between Chinese and Euro/Jpn rubbers, in my opinion. Excellent spin (with the proper technique)... and I'm talking excellent. Great speed, faster than most hard tacky rubbers. Great control and very nice feel. It's $35 so it's not cheap, but it's not the $70 you'd pay for "other" rubbers.

It sounds like we have similar styles of play (though you may be much better than I). I try to emulate the Chinese style too. I'm sure I do it poorly, but I'm also tall and skinny (6'2" and 175). WLQ is kind of a TT "idol" to me, simply because of his build and style.

cls2222 wrote: I guess I could try that rubber out, but I already ordered a sheet of H3 Neo provincial so I'll check that out first. But despite everything said about strokes and rubber, the biggest problem, by far, is having adequate footwork. I remember that the first time I recorded myself playing, I thought i was going to be moving quite fast because in my mind I was playing like Ryu Seung Min looping everything with the forehand lol, but when I actually saw myself, it looked more like Samsonov in slow motion. Many people criticize Seiya Kishikawa or Kim Jung Hoon for being fat and not playing very fast, but if they record themselves playing and compare their footwork with the latter players, then they truly realize how extreme footwork in table tennis is and how much training the pros have to go through to get to that kind of speed.

Oh man... it's just painful to record myself playing. I too have the feeling of playing like a pro, with my strokes crisp and my footwork light and efficient. Then I watch myself and I look like a turd... an awkward turd.

But nonetheless, recording yourself is a good learning tool. A painful one, but a good one.

Anyway, if you don't like Neo H3, I do suggest Thor's before you give up on tacky rubber. It will likely help your transition since it's kind of a hybrid.

Good luck!

That's precisely why Chinese players have the biggest strokes and fastest footwork to get to the ball before it drops too low. Many players just use Chinese rubbers solely because the best Chinese national players use them. You have to be an extreme athlete with great footwork technique to play a Chinese style effectively. That's pretty much what I know about a real Chinese style lol

cls2222 wrote: I want to develop a more aggressive "over-the-table" attack game and from what I hear, Chinese rubber is supposed to be just the thing I am looking for. However, when I asked some people for advice, mainly Eric Owens and a few good Chinese players from where I am from, they told me it is not worth the change because it takes "many years" of learning a completely different technique. I have changed my technique quite a few times over the past few years and do not understand why it would be so hard to change to a Chinese rubber. Any advice please? Thanks.

I've been playing tt hardcore for about a year now. In all this time I tried lots of equipment, but had a chinese rubber as primary fh rubber. I studied lots of pros. Watched games in slow motion over and over, watched all training videos I could get my hands on, many times, practiced in front of the mirror etc. I read every article I could get my hands on... so my theoretical knowledge of the game is way higher than my skill level. I can tell you that the technique is quite different (euro vs chinese), and if my footwork is not up, I miss lots of easy shots. But on a normal day, no other rubber can match what chinese hard and tacky rubbers can do. People say you lose the feel but I say that if you practice long enough, you will actually feel more with chinese than with euro. You can clearly feel the ball spin and bury in the rubber and sponge. With slow, short movements you can impart lots of spin, but the best thing about them is grabbing the ball and releasing it wherever you want. Service is awesome!

I would recommend chinese rubbers (mostly dhs) to anyone serious about this game. But keep in mind that I only play seriously for about a year (3-4 hours 5-6 days a week) and therefore I'm not a coach or pro player by any means.

cls2222 wrote: I want to develop a more aggressive "over-the-table" attack game and from what I hear, Chinese rubber is supposed to be just the thing I am looking for. However, when I asked some people for advice, mainly Eric Owens and a few good Chinese players from where I am from, they told me it is not worth the change because it takes "many years" of learning a completely different technique. I have changed my technique quite a few times over the past few years and do not understand why it would be so hard to change to a Chinese rubber. Any advice please? Thanks.

 There are two ways of looking at this. If you are serious about your game, best take the advice given by the above, its correct IMO from the angle these guys look at TT. OR... do what the hell you like, its your life.

cls2222 wrote: APW46 wrote: cls2222 wrote: I want to develop a more aggressive "over-the-table" attack game and from what I hear, Chinese rubber is supposed to be just the thing I am looking for. However, when I asked some people for advice, mainly Eric Owens and a few good Chinese players from where I am from, they told me it is not worth the change because it takes "many years" of learning a completely different technique. I have changed my technique quite a few times over the past few years and do not understand why it would be so hard to change to a Chinese rubber. Any advice please? Thanks.  There are two ways of looking at this. If you are serious about your game, best take the advice given by the above, its correct IMO from the angle these guys look at TT. OR... do what the hell you like, its your life. Was I ever obligated to do anything? "Do whatever the hell you want" is like saying f*** off, just in case you do not understand that.

 No sorry, it was not meant to reflect that feeling at all. You are not obliged to do anything, that is my point, Do what you wish, be free, but if you wish to take advice, you have already done it through such well respected players as Eric Owens. It seems to me, you have asked the question, and been given the answer that you do not like, so you have come on this forum to get the answer you DO like, I'm sure there are many that will give you it, but I won't, no need for WW3.

APW46 wrote: cls2222 wrote: APW46 wrote: cls2222 wrote: I want to develop a more aggressive "over-the-table" attack game and from what I hear, Chinese rubber is supposed to be just the thing I am looking for. However, when I asked some people for advice, mainly Eric Owens and a few good Chinese players from where I am from, they told me it is not worth the change because it takes "many years" of learning a completely different technique. I have changed my technique quite a few times over the past few years and do not understand why it would be so hard to change to a Chinese rubber. Any advice please? Thanks.  There are two ways of looking at this. If you are serious about your game, best take the advice given by the above, its correct IMO from the angle these guys look at TT. OR... do what the hell you like, its your life. Was I ever obligated to do anything? "Do whatever the hell you want" is like saying f*** off, just in case you do not understand that.  No sorry, it was not meant to reflect that feeling at all. You are not obliged to do anything, that is my point, Do what you wish, be free, but if you wish to take advice, you have already done it through such well respected players as Eric Owens. It seems to me, you have asked the question, and been given the answer that you do not like, so you have come on this forum to get the answer you DO like, I'm sure there are many that will give you it, but I won't, no need for WW3. What you have to work out is the best option for you, Eric Owens, The Chinese players you mention, Mine (that's three) or fish around and wait for an answer that suits you, then take that one as a good advice. As I say 'do what the hell you want'

I did not get an explanation from any of these players, just some quick advice. I wanted some insight and received some good information from several members on the forum. The reason I started this thread was for some information, not an answer I "DO like." I don't know how you interpreted my thread this way, but it is not the reason I am asking a question.

Here's my

TL;DR report for APW's post
1) Eric and the Chinese guys and APW are serious players
2) You will progress faster if you build on what you know,
3) but that may not be the point
4) If your goal is to just have fun, do it

Speaking of fun:
My club has a former US1600 player who got bored of shakehand (IIRC) and decided that he would spend the last ten years learning JPEN, CPEN and even V-Grip. And in addition to the strokes, he adopted the tactics of each style. Now, he frequently changes grips during points and hits some really interesting shots. And while he only plays about US1000-1200 these days, he can do a lot more cool things than he could 10 years ago (greater service variety, RPB, surprise shots from different angles by changing to another grip, etc. etc).

One other thing.  I played with Eric Owens about twice a week for a couple of years.  SOme of the stuff he told me about table tennis didn't make sense until years later.  But it was all true. I wrote a lot of it down.  I still consult that sheet from time to time.

I am really working on developing a dynamic style and I am going to be taking lessons from Eric starting this Thursday. I have been trying to imitate players like Kamal and Mattenet, but it is going to take a lot of footwork training and technique correction to play a "proper" style. I play everyday and train footwork everyday but I am nowhere close to a dynamic style yet. Service is probably the strongest part of my game because that is what I can practice as much as I want without a good training partner.

Well, I spoke with Eric regarding the Chinese rubber, and he told me to not to use the Chinese rubber, so I am going to follow his advice. I mean, there are no good coaches in Illinois that play a Chinese style, so it is pretty much a worthless idea to try out with no good Chinese style coaches around here to give me proper training. 

I have to be rational if I want be a good player so and back to Tensors.

cls2222 wrote: Well, I spoke with Eric regarding the Chinese rubber, and he told me to not to use the Chinese rubber, so I am going to follow his advice. I mean, there are no good coaches in Illinois that play a Chinese style, so it is pretty much a worthless idea to try out with no good Chinese style coaches around here to give me proper training.  I have to be rational if I want be a good player so and back to Tensors.

You are welcome. oops something is missing......

Hi,

stoic wrote: Hi,   I've read the first page of posts and disagree with some members who claim that changing to a Chinese rubber is difficult. I am by no means a talented player, but with a couple of months training I changed from Bryce to H3 without much trouble.   You do not have to change your technique, in fact the Chinese coaches in Chengdu taught me the identical technique to the English ones! The only change you have to make is the bat angle when you hit the ball. With H3, you need to close the angle more than Bryce for example.   Cheers

My wife is from Chengdu area.  I love that place!