Chinese forehand Vs. Euro forehand?

ohhgourami wrote: APW46 wrote: I honestly think that the perspective that players/members of this forum look at this, is directly associated to their level of play, I'm saying no more on this, other than that there are many levels of standards between WLC etc, and the players/members of this forum post their views accordingly, my personal view, as a coach that specialises in improving the standard of players who are not potential internationals, are not ever going to reach the heights of International play, do not practice full time, are not sponsored, Are not a part of an international program for producing top players, do not have the time, money or inclination to play at the top level, Are well above the age at which any of the above is realistically possible, but just wish to be a little better in their play, Leave this stuff alone, be honest about your realistic expectations, don't try to copy WLC's F/hand drive, develop your own, personal to you, copy the best player in your club, its a realistic goal that you can achieve, trying to emulate the best players in the world is just not a realistic propasition, there are for the most of us, players who are the stars of our regions/ countries who are full time proffesional players, yet they cannot get anywhere near the level of the best players in the world, do you not think that they might have possibly been advised by their national full time experienced coaches on the benefits, realisations and probabilities of success that they can apparently easily achieve by copying WLC and the rest of the current Chinese national team? So why does anyone on this forum think that the advice given by blahness is going to make any difference to their game? we in England send our best players to China for long periods, they do not ever come back having a WLC forhand, why does anyone think that they can employ these methods better than them? that is why I was quite precise in my response with the word 'Bullsh*t' and I whole heartedly stick by it. His name is Wang LiQIN. not Wang LiChing! I'll agree to an extent that copying WLQ's straight arm fh is a bit unrealistic.  There are many dynamics to his stroke that are hard to see in videos.  Luckily for me, my coach teaches a variant of the WLQ fh which is similar and fits me too I highly doubt the players sent from England to train in China would come back with a straight arm fh.  I doubt they would want to dramatically change their style of play.  I also doubt they had a chinese stroke in the first place.  It's unreasonable for high level players to completely change their game.  But they didn't come back with a chinese fh doesn't mean that  WLQ's straight arm technique is unreachable even to high level players. When it comes down to it, every player will not have the same exact stroke.  Instead, they will probably have a variant of the stroke they would like to emulate which fits their body type and style.

 WLC ? who cares, you know who I mean.

"Q" in Qin used to be spelled as "Ch" (Chin) until the Chinese government changed it.  As far as pronunciation goes, "CH" is more accurate...   

APW46 wrote: I honestly think that the perspective that players/members of this forum look at this, is directly associated to their level of play, I'm saying no more on this, other than that there are many levels of standards between WLC etc, and the players/members of this forum post their views accordingly, my personal view, as a coach that specialises in improving the standard of players who are not potential internationals, are not ever going to reach the heights of International play, do not practice full time, are not sponsored, Are not a part of an international program for producing top players, do not have the time, money or inclination to play at the top level, Are well above the age at which any of the above is realistically possible, but just wish to be a little better in their play, Leave this stuff alone, be honest about your realistic expectations, don't try to copy WLC's F/hand drive, develop your own, personal to you, copy the best player in your club, its a realistic goal that you can achieve, trying to emulate the best players in the world is just not a realistic propasition, there are for the most of us, players who are the stars of our regions/ countries who are full time proffesional players, yet they cannot get anywhere near the level of the best players in the world, do you not think that they might have possibly been advised by their national full time experienced coaches on the benefits, realisations and probabilities of success that they can apparently easily achieve by copying WLC and the rest of the current Chinese national team? So why does anyone on this forum think that the advice given by blahness is going to make any difference to their game? we in England send our best players to China for long periods, they do not ever come back having a WLC forhand, why does anyone think that they can employ these methods better than them? that is why I was quite precise in my response with the word 'Bullsh*t' and I whole heartedly stick by it.  When it comes to coaching, In am seriously a massive critic, there is an obvious culture within the USA of Chinese coaches being resident in clubs of a given locality. For the most part, the techniques and stratergies of these coaches is well above what the players they coach are capable of, they are there for money and money alone, and are not capable of coaching anything other than international play, which flies well above the capabilities of most of their students. So what i'm saying guys is that if you wish to get that edge, that extra bump up the ratings next year, you would be far better off following Brian Pace than a top Chinese coach. If however you are ranked 120 in the world, go for the Chinese guy every time

This thread is the reason I don't get caught up in this is right or this is wrong from coaches or other players. I gladly take advice and training and then I evaluate it for my own game. For example I was hitting with one 2000 level player a few weeks back who said I needed to close off my backhand more and make sure my left foot was well in front of my right and my left shoulder was in front at all times. I played with another 2000 level player last weekend who insisted that you hit with the right foot forward and your right shoulder is in front. For me this is all great theory but I have an issue about getting obsessive with technique and mechanics so I have to take it with a grain of salt. After all in the middle of a point the last thing I should be worried about is technique rather than focusing on strategy and winning the point.

@ Firehorse - Tackifire is a tacky rubber and is Butterfly's answer to a Chinese style rubber. Especially Tackifire C.

This thing people are calling "the Chinese stroke" is a lot less obvious in their top women than in the men, and it is not something one finds in all very good Chinese, that is for sure.  

Its a pleasure icontec, you are always welcome to Pm me for any advice.

asyraf wrote: combine china fh and european fh..

this is what i mean by hybrid technique

equipment has a large part in it, but also the european style is a lot easier spin

I think it's fair to say that the 'Chinese' forehand topspin technique is superior to the 'European' forehand topspin technique. I've played most of them and I can assure you I would rather have Boll or Samsonov looping at me than WLQ or Ma Lin.

thewook82 wrote: I think it's fair to say that the 'Chinese' forehand topspin technique is superior to the 'European' forehand topspin technique. I've played most of them and I can assure you I would rather have Boll or Samsonov looping at me than WLQ or Ma Lin.

Thanks for the insight!  Are there any specific things about the 'Chinese' technique that make it more difficult to play against?  To me it seems like the Chinese have developed  better over the table and counter driving game, where the Europeans like to play from several meters back. 

I hope the tide turns in the future so we can have something other than an all Chinese semifinal.  In watching some of the recent Maze matches it appears he is taking a more aggressive approach to the game since working with the Chinese coach.

thewook82 wrote: simply thinking, studying and trying some new concepts.

Hopefully you can provide us some of these concepts.  I'm sure they would be greatly appreciated!

It's coming faster and harder, they need less time for recovery, use less effort to gain the maximum amount of power, play their shot in a way that keeps their body position more stable, use optimal mechanics - the list goes on. It doesn't mean they always win but at least they have a technical advantage. I could spend a year going through differences and what gives the Chinese forehand this advantage, but have a look at the arm, the wrist and the body position to start with...

The reason is through lack of knowledge more than anything. I'm a perfect example - I often wonder how much further I could have made it if I knew then what I know now, or at least had someone to show me. But alas, I had soft rubbers put on my bat and was taught to topspin upwards.  Backhand topspin on the other hand - well the Chinese have only recently caught up with the Europeans there.

The simple answer is yes Baal. You can always improve your strokes. It isn't easy but it is certainly possible.

mjamja wrote: My impression (and it is a from very limited experience) is that developing European players are still using a Euro technique.� If that is truely the case, why do you think European coaches have not been promoting the use of a more Chinese style.� Seems like the Chinese saw some value in the shake-hand grip and started developing a significant number of players with that technique.� Maybe that adaptability is what made and keeps the Chinese players at the top. Mark

To my understanding, what keeps the Chinese players at the top is that the Chinese is not afraid to learn from the best and continuously experimenting with new forms and techniques. If the straight arm looping can generate more power and spin they will use this technique to win points. And if that does not work their R&D teams will come up with something better that will work.

I used to copy Wang Hao and now focus more on Xu Xin. I know I can never play like them. But copying their skill and form is a very satisfying experience and procedure. Having fun for me is more important than beating the other guys. But that's me. Other TT players that participate in tournaments may have different goals.

Anton Chigurh wrote: thewook82 wrote: The simple answer is yes Baal. You can always improve your strokes. It isn't easy but it is certainly possible. I'm very encouraged to hear that, as I am in the process of completely reworking my stroke right now.

Don't worry, it's possible.  My coach started off with euro technique and used it for 6 years since he had a full sponsorship by BTY and used heavily glued Bryce on a Schlager Carbon.  He later got kicked from the sponsorship during his peak.  He transitioned to chinese straight arm with H3 that year.  It took him 6 months to finally break the habit of brushing up to loop.  His straight arm is monstrously fast and spinny.