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CREATING MORE SPIN |
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theman
Premier Member Joined: 09/22/2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7234 |
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Posted: 03/02/2007 at 2:56am |
hey guys i need some advice on creating more spin.
i know wat brushing the ball/grazing it means, but how do u put it into practice. ive seen my friend do a backspin serve and it rolls backwards on carpet. i would like to have that spin, but i cant do it. any exercises or help which may alleviate this problem? |
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FAMERICAAN
Member Joined: 11/18/2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 39 |
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* Did you ask your friend how he could do that, how he trained to do that?
I always doing a warm up 10 mins , en before the play in, i grab some balls and just serve like in a real game... and then about 2 months i do the same server and when times go by im putting more spin in it
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The Speed and Spin 'Controles'me |
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????
Super Member Joined: 01/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 122 |
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u should master placement and how low the ball is, this is more important than spin .If the ball is placed high or in an easy position even with alot of spin, A good player will generally be able to attack it or set himself up much easier than if it was a low well placed ball.
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-ljl-
Beginner Joined: 06/26/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 72 |
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contact point is more important ! try to contact the top part of your blade
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Blade:Yasaka Gatien Extra
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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1. Racket face angle should always be exactly parallel to the direction in which the racket is moving. If the angle is off, you'll sacrifice spin for speed.
2. You need very light contact with the ball. If you throw a very high toss for an underspin serve, you get heavy contact with the ball (from the momentum of falling down so far) and the ball will go far, or be much more difficult to keep short. If you do a low toss, you can swing your hardest with good contact and still keep it short, with lots of spin. 3. True, the contact point does matter somewhat. If it's a pendulum serve, the top of the blade creates more centripetal (or centrifugal?) force because it's on the outside of the circular motion. But if you hit in the middle or lower end of the blade, it has less effect. But you can remedy this by swinging harder. I don't personally use the top of the blade, I just aim for middle; there's less margin of error that way, and I feel my swing has enough power already. But you could use that for deception. To reduce the spin, make contact closer to the handle; then you can swing fast and still reduce the spin for deception. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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sverige
Super Member Joined: 03/04/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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Very good point there pimpmyracket.
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reachie85
Super Member Joined: 02/11/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 470 |
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practice using wrist more after you get the contact point, and other things down. but creating more spin isn't that important, what's important is the variety of serves and how well you conceal all of them, in other words, how well can you keep using the same motion serving down spin vs. side spin, or even spin vs. no spin.
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weekdayhacker
Beginner Joined: 06/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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I found that it takes a lot of practice to develop heavy spins, and can be frustrating because it's a technique that will not instantly give you results. Be patient while learning this:
What I do when I want more spin is first to relax my shoulder, elbow and wrist. Try to keep it relaxed during the swing.
For topspin, cock your wrist downward during your backswing - then accelerate your arm to the ball like a whipping action - just before ball contact, release your wrist and graze the ball. Your racket angle should be from 30 to 90 degrees in relation to horizontal depending on the incoming ball's spin.
For underspin, cock your wrist upwards during your backswing - then swing your arm in a scooping motion - you don't need to whip through - just before ball contact, release your wrist and graze the ball. Your racket angle will be around 0 to 60 degrees, depending on the incoming ball's spin.
Try the underspin technique in a carpeted room with zero degree angle and watch your ball come back to you like a yo-yo.
Also, I've found that slightly more spin can be attained by contacting the ball on the tip of your racket.
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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Ideally the windup of both underspin and topspin serves should be the same, so as not to tip off what serve will be coming. If we're talking about the forehand pendulum serve to make side-topspin and side-underspin, you should be using the same wind-up anyways. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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Swiff
Platinum Member Joined: 06/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2587 |
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The faster you brush your racket across the the ball, the more spin it's going to create. For spin, it's going to be mostly wrist movement.
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Pip Master
Silver Member Joined: 02/12/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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whats kind of topspin serves are you doing? this sounds like the amateur version of the serve which is very obvious and generally goes long, a proper topspin serve should always be incorporated with sidespin therefore it is much more subtle. to do this, you do as if you were doing a regular sidespin serve only instead of spinning the ball sideways you spin it diagonaly: sideways and upwasrds. when combined with a good side-underspin serve, it is great. and very difficult for the receiver to read once you get the hang of it.
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a11291994
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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I use to have that problem. But you have to make sure you paddle is more flat. And when you swing use your forearm. use a bit of wrist.
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weekdayhacker
Beginner Joined: 06/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Hi pip master,
Sorry for the confusion - my comment was a response to the original question of how to create more spin - it was not intended for serves. Serves require a lot of wrist snap to create heavy spin.
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Pip Master
Silver Member Joined: 02/12/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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ok no problem lol weekdayhacker.
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bogeyhunter9
Super Member Joined: 07/22/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 202 |
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Gotta use chinese rubber!!!
Globe 999 - Blue.
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Rating : 2000
Hallmark Aurora + TSP Curl P1-R 0.5 mm/Globe 999 blue. Dr.N Firewall Plus+Globe 999 Red+Destroyer OX/Saviga V OX. Speed glue long pips.. |
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theman
Premier Member Joined: 09/22/2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 7234 |
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thx guys for the comments. so illl try that scooping motion for backspin, btw i switched rackets, froma dotec to a donic persson impulse, hence the head is much wider than say a primorac carbon.
but yeh ill try to relax the wrist, and do i whipping motion. |
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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concentrate on contacting the ball, this is something I need to do as well. When I serve I don't get as much spin as if i'm looking at the ball and thinking about contact point.
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Swiff
Platinum Member Joined: 06/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2587 |
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I also am having trouble with serves. I only have two a back spin and a sidespin. I guess, were saying that contact point is key right?
And knowing the wrist movement upon contacting the ball. Is this right?
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weekdayhacker
Beginner Joined: 06/24/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 55 |
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Hi Swiffers,
Check out cole's service video near the page bottom of http://www.colestt.com/contact.php
He does lots of spinny serves and explains what he's doing.
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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I've been working on service lately so here is one amateur's opinion.
On pure forehand backspin serves, some points to experiment with, first is simple, but be sure to check it: 1) keep surface of paddle parallel to floor. Lots of people say this, so for a long time I thought I ok; but sometimes it feels totally like you're parallel, but you're actually not! I realized have a tendency to let the tip droop down, meaning I contact more in under / sidespin combo on the side of the ball facing me on toss. To compensate I force myself to point the tip a little bit towards the ceiling as I contact for backspin - this actually winds up being parallel - and spin is noticably improved. Having someone inspect your serve carefully, or taping yourself and looking, is a good way to verify how parallel you really are. Incidentally, experimenting with service with the tip pointing a little up might surprise you! second is a little more tricky; there is a great article on this somewhere on line, but I've forgotten the reference, maybe somebody knows: 2) in theory, the ideal contact point is IN FRONT of the ball - the side facing your opponent. Coming underneath the ball and traveling forward and up on the front will maximize your spin and keep the ball short. In practice, this is very hard, and you might have to start behind the ball to give it a little forward motion. But using bat face parallel to floor is a good start, get UNDER and IN FRONT of the ball as much as you can, and see how this improves your spin and keeps it short. Also, grazing underneath parallel will do less to drive the ball into the table - when you hit downwards and forward from behind the ball (common attempt at backspin), some of the spin is neutralized as the ball skids on the table on your side, you gotta keep that spin for the opponent to deal with! Aside: This is one technique for deception - using a spinny motion, but driving the ball more from behind, into the table, so it comes across with less spin. Varying contact point on paddle, from tip to closer to the paddle, is another. 3) wrist is important, but as with all TT strokes, don't forget to use rest of body. Bend your knees and extend a little on contact - this gives you a little upward force (when coming in front of the ball), and is more deceptive as most opponents (at my level at least) are just focusing on arm + contact point. turn your torso too; turn away on windup, hiding the paddle, and turn in (towards opponent) on contact, this lets you move your arm more slowly, giving more control, while maintaining the same speed. Moving your arm slowly at this point is good; use just torso and focus on wrist motion, with a slow arm motion on windup that looks the same for all types of serves. Now get a friend and go practice! |
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leoniedy
Super Member Joined: 02/24/2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 256 |
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chronos, you're the man ! Very clear instructions; will help a lot !
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TT_Freak
Platinum Member Joined: 11/21/2004 Status: Offline Points: 2672 |
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Just keep practicing, eventually you'll get the feel for the movement.
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Violin
F1 Actor 10g at 3 and 9 10g at 12 20g at the end of handle |
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chronos
Gold Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Status: Offline Points: 1721 |
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Tonight at the club I was practicing; here are some keys:
1) LIGHT CONTACT like pimpmyracket says is key, so keep the toss low and brush underneath. 2) height of contact with the ball is important. Too low, you won't get over the net; too high, the bounce will be high, and you expose yourself to an attack. As it says above, low serves are very important, especially when they're short. 3) pay close attention to where the ball bounces on your side. This will affect how short it is, combined with 2), how low it is. 4) contact the ball with horizontal racket face (I really, really have to fight the tendency to droop the tip down, causing side spin) and come up along the bottom part of the ball facing your opponent. You'll be amazed; with light contact and proper placement, you can get the ball to bounce and come back hitting the net, and even get it to bounce once on that side, and come back (though in practice if the opponent sees this coming this could expose you to attack) Even when this doesn't happen, the ball bounces many times on the other side, and just stops. I can't wait to get this consistent enough to use in matches. What I am curious is how do most people achieve pure underspin as part of pendulum service motion (if at all)? Or in that case, is it always a mixture of side under, or side top? because to do pure under, it seems you have to abort out of the pendulum and graze along underneath the ball (not that this is bad, I see Chila for example do it in matches) Incidentally, you can get a better brushing touch for underspin serves as follows: One of the very first steps in TT is just holding the paddle out in front of you and bouncing the ball up in the air. The next step is bouncing it up and developing enough touch to catch the ball on the rubber instead of having it bounce. Get those down, then try the following: practice bouncing the ball up in the air, and as its coming down, brush forwards with a forehand motion, keeping paddle face horizontal, but prevent the ball from penetrating deeply and bouncing back up, it should spin and basically keep falling down between your feet, shooting off to the right from the spin you just imparted. Doing this requires you to also track downwards as you're brushing, to allow the ball to more or less keep falling. This seemed to help me improve this serve (practiced it last night) |
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ozjan
Super Member Joined: 01/31/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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serves need wrist action... also the closer to the top of the racket u make contact with the ball as ur snapping the more spin, as opposed to hitting the ball in the middle of the racket... this is key, but also takes lots of practice to do consistently
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that's a rip!
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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interesting ideas |
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yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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Yeah for pendulum serves you generally make side-underspin and side-topspin, not pure underspin or topspin. But you could do the pendulum perfectly horizontally which would make pure underspin. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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Serden
Super Member Joined: 09/20/2005 Location: Turkey Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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chronos thanks for the advices.
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