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Different Eras of Chinese TT Dominance

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RPB23 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05/12/2014 at 1:50pm
Chinese like to designate their table tennis eras with the name of their elite top players.

To simplify the discussion, we start with the year when Kong LinHui won his only World Championship in TianJin which marked the start of Kong-Liu(GuoLiang) era, or simply, K-L era.

During the period, both Kong and Liu were absolute CNT's one-two punch. Liu often credited as Waldner killer. This era ended with CNT's last team loss to Sweden and Liu got killed by Waldner. After Sidney Olympic where Kong finally joined Liu as a grand slam winner, ITTF's launched series of rule changes that directly sent the declining Liu into retirement and Kong into a major slump that he hadn't won any events since.

After Kong-Liu era, we have Wang(LiQin)-Ma(Lin) era or W-M era. This era lasted quite long and later expanded into Wang-Ma-Wang(Hao) three headed monster. We should say, compared to K-L era, this era was more dominant. Actually, even at the second leg of Kong-Liu era, WLQ and ML were better performer and stronger players than Kong and Liu. 

The current era which was just recently officially named Zhang(JK)-Ma(Long) two core with Xu Xin in supporting role actually started quite a few years ago with WLQ and ML in declining stage and Wang Hao came on his own. With major players in this era are only under 25, we can expect this Z-M era can last for 5 or more years.

In terms of Chinese dominance, the data shows Z-M era > W-M era > K-L era.

In K-L era, China lost the most significant team championship, and also didn't get many world cups and Waldner was still quite strong. During 7 or 8 years, Kong and Liu only won one grand slam individual events once.

W-M era was much more dominant, they only surrendered one Olympic gold medal but captured all major events, except several world cup titles. WLQ's steady performance really contributed the dominance of this era that at one time, he had maintained world number one rank for a record length.

However, the real dominance belongs to this Z-M era. What's remarkable is, in this era, you can not point out which big event non-Chinese player ever captured. They not only won all the major events but it is getting disheartening hard for non-Chinese players to win even a ITTF tour where Chinese send its top players. Nowadays, wherever you see either Z-M-X or the youngest Fan or even Yan an or Zhou Yu in any event, you instantly know, the medal is for Chinese to take. And most of these events, the finals or even semi-finals are all Chinese. That is absolute total domination!

One reason Z-M era is so dominant is due to one player whom ZJK should thank for all his grand slam winnings, Wang Hao. Wang is a very steady performer, except his loss in Olympic finales, he performs remarkably well in the world stage. He is a transcendent player whose long career spans through W-M era to Z-M era, contributing the dominance to both eras.   

Why Chinese are getting more and more dominance in TT? 

There are lots of reasons. 

Does it have something to do with many of recent rule changes that affected TT play? 

I think it does but that discussion probably worth a new thread itself.
 



  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2014 at 2:02pm
Kong and Liu were much better than any of the current Chinese team.
Chinese are becoming more and more dominant because the Korean, Japanese and Swedish players
at the moment are not as strong as they used to be in the past.


Edited by ChichoFicho - 05/12/2014 at 2:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gizzle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/12/2014 at 8:32pm
Good analysis and I agree with your points. Even though I like to think the Wang-Ma era was also extremely dominant, we do have to remember that for example, Schlager managed to peak at the perfect time and snatch away the World Championship in 2003, and Boll achieved his now famous "triple-kill" (WLQ, MLin, WH) during the 2005 World Cup. By contrast, I think we all know that no non-Chinese player has achieved anything close to that since, and that the current ZJK-ML era is just a further extension and evolution of Chinese dominance in the modern looping game, stretching back to Kong-Liu.

I do think there is merit to the argument that the ITTF rule changes, specifically the 40mm change, had the unintended effect of further enhancing the potential of the Chinese system. Primarily it reduced the effectiveness of the playstyle that Waldner encapsulated, which centered around touch and finesse, and further shifted the spectrum towards raw power, physicality and technical ability. With an overall shift towards higher technical requirements, the sport saw non-Chinese players, especially Europeans, fall by the wayside as the Chinese took the originally "European" two-winged looping playstyle and perfected it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king_pong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 3:33am
Originally posted by RPB23 RPB23 wrote:

Chinese like to designate their table tennis eras with the name of their elite top players.

To simplify the discussion, we start with the year when Kong LinHui won his only World Championship in TianJin which marked the start of Kong-Liu(GuoLiang) era, or simply, K-L era.

During the period, both Kong and Liu were absolute CNT's one-two punch. Liu often credited as Waldner killer. This era ended with CNT's last team loss to Sweden and Liu got killed by Waldner. After Sidney Olympic where Kong finally joined Liu as a grand slam winner, ITTF's launched series of rule changes that directly sent the declining Liu into retirement and Kong into a major slump that he hadn't won any events since. 

I thought Kong was supposed to be the "Waldner killer".  ???  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikepong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 4:04am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Kong and Liu were much better than any of the current Chinese team.
Chinese are becoming more and more dominant because the Korean, Japanese and Swedish players
at the moment are not as strong as they used to be in the past.

can i ask your opinion on why you think kong and liu were much better than any current chinese team? thnx

BTW KLH is one of my idols, his technique is so smooth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sugengz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 4:10am
I think the dominant era now [still] Liu Guo Liang and Kong Ling Hui... 
they coach the Men's and Women's CNT... 
 :D 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikepong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 4:12am
Originally posted by sugengz sugengz wrote:

I think the dominant era now [still] Liu Guo Liang and Kong Ling Hui... 
they coach the Men's and Women's CNT... 
 :D 

yup come to think of itSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zzzuppp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/13/2014 at 5:45pm
This is all very well, but if you're going to talk about dominance, how about the other Chinese?

Women.

Except for a couple of (gifted) World Championships to North Korean Pak Yung Sun in the '70s, and some spirited Korean resistance in the early 90s, Chinese women have totally dominated TT since 1973.

Don't mention Singapore (they're all ex-CNT members). And many of the best players in Europe learned the game in China.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RPB23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2014 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by zzzuppp zzzuppp wrote:

This is all very well, but if you're going to talk about dominance, how about the other Chinese?

Women.

Except for a couple of (gifted) World Championships to North Korean Pak Yung Sun in the '70s, and some spirited Korean resistance in the early 90s, Chinese women have totally dominated TT since 1973.

Don't mention Singapore (they're all ex-CNT members). And many of the best players in Europe learned the game in China.
Yes, Chinese women are more dominant than their men. This is mainly due to the fact, women outside of China, especially non Asian, have a lot less participation than men. 

In men's world, TT power house has always been Asian and EU. 

One women side, EU women has stopped providing competition long time ago. 

Is it  true TT just doesn't look cool for white girls?  


Edited by RPB23 - 05/15/2014 at 1:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2014 at 2:21pm
How do the Chinese refer to the era when they were losing quite often?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2014 at 6:53pm
Current generation is currently dominant because the international competition is dying out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunkeelin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2014 at 2:23am
^ +1. TT is getting expensive in EU. The Chinese government have a program for TT talents. So basically if you show potential (you don't necessary have to be good) you get put into a government program specifically to train tt WITHOUT PAYING A PENNY. TT coaches will be paid by the government, while in EU most coaches gets paid by the individual who wants to learn tt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2014 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Gizzle Gizzle wrote:



I do think there is merit to the argument that the ITTF rule changes, specifically the 40mm change, had the unintended effect of further enhancing the potential of the Chinese system. Primarily it reduced the effectiveness of the playstyle that Waldner encapsulated, which centered around touch and finesse, and further shifted the spectrum towards raw power, physicality and technical ability. With an overall shift towards higher technical requirements, the sport saw non-Chinese players, especially Europeans, fall by the wayside as the Chinese took the originally "European" two-winged looping playstyle and perfected it.



 Thanks, I was just about to write that almost word for wordSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/17/2014 at 11:30am
Any rules change favors China.  It doesn't matter what it is.  They have a superior grass roots organization, more players, more coaches, they simply care more about the sport, so that means they will always find the players who are best suited for what every rule devised.  There will be a team of PhDs studying the best way to play with any new rule or equipment.  I don't mean this as a critique of Chinese table tennis either.  They inevitably bring the sport to higher and higher levels and if you love TT, you have to marvel at these players.  Once they abandoned old ideas about "traditional" Chinese ways of playing (which the Chinese admit themselves), which was holding them back a bit, they became unstoppable.  The depth of talent that they have sets them apart from everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote laabkuf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2015 at 1:17am
Originally posted by RPB23 RPB23 wrote:

Why Chinese are getting more and more dominance in TT? 


simple math and i know this from years of research

The pythagorean-LiuGuoliangian theorem: a^2 + b^2 =  rest of the world getting wreckt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2015 at 8:57am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Kong and Liu were much better than any of the current Chinese team.
Chinese are becoming more and more dominant because the Korean, Japanese and Swedish players
at the moment are not as strong as they used to be in the past.


typical old school homer lmao, they'd probably get destroyed by the current zhang jike or ma long
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/14/2015 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by hunkeelin hunkeelin wrote:

^ +1. TT is getting expensive in EU. The Chinese government have a program for TT talents. So basically if you show potential (you don't necessary have to be good) you get put into a government program specifically to train tt WITHOUT PAYING A PENNY. TT coaches will be paid by the government, while in EU most coaches gets paid by the individual who wants to learn tt. 

Same in the US, not a lot of people can afford 60$/hour lessons
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