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Drills from a coaching session with my coach |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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vut it sounds like you're saying his fh follow through is ok? we also note that you did not address the substance of any of my posts nor did you stay on topic... yet decided that attacking/flaming would be the best way to contribute.... honestly junior...who's trolling who? regards rick Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/07/2014 at 11:30am |
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Rich215
Premier Member Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
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Rick...no offense but if you are so perfect in playing ability both grip styles and are such a high level coach......you should back it up by reveling exactly whom you are. It would seem such a person would be well known to most others in NA. Anyone can say anything on the internet and sometimes get away with it.
But you seem to go to no ends to keep up an argument of your opinion against PB and those that know he will never change his style of play. He will change his ability by adding better technique for his style with more training and coaching. To what level that is......you can say. Of course he does not have text book physical style and mechanics. He does not have the time to train or retrain what he already has...only build on it. This is the case for most here on the forum I would think. PB looks like he has lost a lot of weight in the past year or so and at his age....that is a great thing to accomplish with a family and normal life! Kudos PB! We do not all have time and money to train with perfect coaches near by.......so by putting someone down with less than this situation, being older, having injuries, and knowing full well it is the case.......YOUR TROLLING! |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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i guess you missed the "The Good" part of the post where i pointed out a bunch of good things....was that trolling? or was it trolling when i said he needed to recover faster on his fh follow through? just so we're all clear as to your definition of trolling regards rick |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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This is why it is often good to respond late - other people respond for you and you realize you aren't seeing things.
Rick is the world's best athlete. That's how he rolls, so forgive him for his impatience with us lesser mortals.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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No need to be sarcastic. Not everyone on this forum, and beyond, likes the PB style - but unfortunately we, regular mortals, know how lethal it can be.
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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nl you may be onto something there. (but you forgot "all around")....it's an important distinction.... and just for the record...i never said that pb wasn't effective...he quite obviously is effective... it's a simple recovery issue..nothing more, nothing less. regards rick |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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It has little to do with the PB style. It's about Byebyeabout claiming to have expertise related to training TT players when he does not and refusing to accept the limitations of his experiences and other people's abilities. Note that I cited coaches with experience who do things differently from the recommendations of people who were criticizing Gary Fraiman (and these coaches were similar to Fraiman), who has good experience that was being ignored by some of them. You can't coach adults with established styles and physical limitations the way you coach kids. And an older coach can't play against players who are closer to his level the way he did when he was younger. That's why multiball is such a great tool. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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Nl i have years of playing/ coaching experience.. and made approx 26 observations about the video...all applicable observations. how many observations did you take the time to make? .do you disagree with my assessment that his fh follow through is ergonomically incorrect? Either way, his stated injuries have nothing to do with his ability to flat drive a ball and therefore have nothing to do with the follow through. regards rick |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Yes, because pushblocker wrote that he has no interest in looping and relooping. His goal is to end the shot with his first stroke. At the point he wrote that, you should have reasonably ended your criticism, but then you started to needle him as if it was an excuse. Going past your center is part of a kill stroke. Sometimes, we all have to accept that there are players out there who are better than we are and who will bring back any ball we loop at them. But if we know the quality of player we intend to give trouble, that simplifies our goals.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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Pity..
this could have been a good thread if needless rudeness had not derailed it. For what its worth, I think PB is doing some pretty useful practice there. It might not be beautiful but its consistent. I think practicing FH from BH corner to BH corner would help to improve the fh and reduce the tendency to hit across the line. But maybe with the limited time for practice, it may be more important to work on things closer to match situations |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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hi ppd i couldn't agree more.... some people are just not interested in helping...they would rather just fling mud... regards rick Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/07/2014 at 1:14pm |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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It appears to me that some people have negative reaction as much, if not more so, to how you express your opinions, than what you say. As to World's Best All Round Athlete ... I find the competition described on www.worldsbestathlete.net quite amusing/humorous. |
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99% practice
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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I hope I did not offend anyone from my last post
I switch to PB style since feb; I have a Q for pushblocker. Did you ask yr coach when you should switch to play real FH instead of "bh block on FH side"? It is hard to do two good "bh block on FH side" in a row if the first return is good return. I asked my coach; he says it depends on my block. If it is a good push, I shall prepare my FH right away. If not, try to block again. |
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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hi victor some people will always have a negative reaction to authority. glad you're were/are amused about the skills competition.....even superlative 2-3 sport athletes find themselves way in over their head when they partake in that competition.... how much more a non athlete? regards rick |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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My coach had known my game long before he started coaching me. He knew that my blocking game against loop is solid at 2300 level. He even saw me in person when I played one of his studends at the time at the NA Team tournament a few years back when I beat his mid 2200 level student 3:0 in a challenge match (not part of the event). It wouldn't be wise to give up that part of my game as I would have to start from scratch if I would want a technically sound game. This would require me to get down to about 1300 - 1400 rating level and develop my game from there. However, that wasn't what either of us wanted to do. We decided to work on my extreme backhand oriented stance to be able to hit some forehands if needed.. My problem was not to beat offensive players as I would have most offensive players under 2250 for breakfast. My problem were those players who would refuse to attack and would play it safe. Once someebody would play it safe, I would have big trouble against them. That's why it was necessary to incorporate a put away attack into my game.. If someone would play high or with little spin, the goal is to punish them for doing so. If they know that I can attack and I can put away their returns if they return it safe and with little spin, they are forced to take more risks and that works in my favor. Often, 1 or 2 successful attacks will keep the opponent from playing it safe.. The moment I get them to attack hard instead of playing it safe, my chances of winning go up significantly. In recent matches, my attacks worked really well but I still miss some critical shots as my confidence is not where it should be but right now, NOBODY under around 2400 rating has a easy time with me except for flat hitters. I used to have big trouble with defenders as I wasn't able to attack.. Now, some choppers that used to beat me 3:0 every time now make 4 to 5 points per game against me. If the opponent plays safe or defensive, my game is 300% better than it used to be.. Of course, the change in my stance has cost me some rating points as my blocking is not as good as it used to be but I have added so many weapons to my game that I can prevent opponents from just playing it safe as I will attack and score if they play it too safe. As I'm only taking coaching once a week, progress is not as fast as it would be if I could play more but I think that I've made great progress. Many players who were playing it safe against me and used to beat me, now have no more chance against me. I'm certain that my playing level right now is well above my current rating. I also had some high rated players selectively default to me as they didn't want to play me and lose the points.. (i.e. Roberto Renta who has never beaten me and slectively defaulted to me in a tournament).. Would they have played me, I would've won and would be over 2200 right now but I couldn't force them to play me... Anyways, I'm confident in my current playing level and I'm feeling that the hard work is finally paying off.. It's not reflected in my rating yet as I'm still 150 points below my highest rating but I'm confident that I'll be over 2200 by the end of the year..
Considering that I'm 43 years old and have a tear in my inner right meniscus, I'm not doing too bad.. Edited by Pushblocker - 04/07/2014 at 2:10pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Hi Rick,
I was similarly amused by the World's Best All Round Athlete competition as I was by your comment about the "salute-like" follow through while executing forehand hit/smash, unless soldiers in your area salute differently than here. I agree with the content of some of the other points you made, even though I didn't like the form. I'd encourage you to solicit opinions from few of the "20 superb coaches" you've seen about the length and the ending position of the follow through for FH hit/smash ... or just watch few Youtube videos (search for forhand smash). Best, Victor |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Re: Chinese Feeding
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Egghead
Premier Member Joined: 09/05/2009 Location: N.A. Status: Offline Points: 4230 |
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thx for your advice. haha, just said I am few years old than you. My coach gave me an advice on against an offensive player who plays it safe, push/block to two corners to unleash their attack instinct My coach loves my dragon talon as well, but he believe it is borderline illegal. |
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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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superb technique 100% flawless... ....and so much respect to salute the officer virtually every time.......love this guy.... he single-handedly encouraged me to learn rph... and the feeder is taking 2-3 balls almost every time from two inches below ...and not bouncing first... f-k---n beautiful....now THAT is how you do it! regards rick Edited by ByeByeAbout - 04/07/2014 at 3:13pm |
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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SOME sheets of Talon exceed 2mm like some of the old DTecS did but most of them are exactly at 2.00 mm.. I do have digital calipers and I measured a few.. Their thickness varied between 1.99 and 2.03 mm with most of them being almost exactly at 2.00 mm but some of them were a little too thick and theoretically illegal. They are by far the longest pips on the market as the base sheet is very thin. This however is the reason why the sheets only last a few months each before it loses pips.. Aspect ratio seems fine as they are pretty wide. Pips density seems to be within the ITTF limits.. It's only the length that on some of them might be 0.01 to 0.03 mm too thick on SOME sheets.. Seems more like a QC issue. Chinese made rubbers are known to be somewhat inconsistent between sheets.. Most of them however seem to be within the 2mm limit. Edited by Pushblocker - 04/07/2014 at 3:05pm |
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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thanks victor but my fh hit and follow through is virtually identical to xu xin albeit not as good...obviously...but form wise ....i rate about 98%...so i don't really have to solicit anyone's opinion...unless i really want to motivate myself and take it from a 98% to perfection...which is not entirely a bad idea... Regards rick |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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Rick,
Different shots = different strokes = different follow through ... I'm surprised that such TT expert as you would confuse two fundamentally different strokes. Also, did you notice that the feeder is "going bouncy bounce first" as you described it your previous post and "is robbing the receiver" from experiencing "real shot"? Best, Victor Edited by VictorK - 04/07/2014 at 3:19pm |
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99% practice
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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victor you can't even describe what you see in a video.....i suggest you look again as the feeder does not bounce the ball on the table... again...you're talking to someone (me) that has virtually perfect form on all my strokes...so im not sure what point you're trying to make.... in the meantime....go back and watch the video again....and i dare to you come back here and say he's bouncing the ball first. regards rick |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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rick didn't you post a video of yourself playing at About.com before? I thought your form looked nothing like XX's unless you've re-learned all your strokes since then. |
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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r that was approaching 15 yrs ago...i don't know if it's so much a matter of "re-learned" as it is "evolved". whatever happened to that forum anyway? regards rick |
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roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
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you were around 1800 level then...what's your rating now? Curious to what a player with perfect strokes like yourself is/should be rated...
Edited by roundrobin - 04/07/2014 at 3:26pm |
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Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
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VictorK
Silver Member Joined: 08/08/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 647 |
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I'm not sure why the link I posted didn't come through (twice) .... I was referring to this Tibhar video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muww1iKoUC8 - hopefully this time it will show.
I guess you really have perfect technique ... I might try to emulate it while executing forehand hit/smash, but I'd probably need to wear a hard hat to avoid hitting my forehead with the racket. Do you wear a hardhat when you practice this technique? |
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Lestat
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 421 |
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Pushblocker, your effort is greatly appreciated by most of the people here, I have no doubt about that, but I don't think you're getting value for your money.
I would have said nothing if that was just a knock-about with one of your mates, but for a paid coach there seems to be a lot of randomness about it, drills for the sake of drilling. I can't even see the value in serve/return/3rd ball. You don't do 3rd ball attack as such, and when your 3rd ball is a push what's the point in training for it specifically? It doesn't look like that guy knows what he's doing. I have a few suggestions for you: Find a sparring partner of similar rating. At this level they should be able to loop consistently into your block on a limited area , as a drill, and there's as much in it for them as it is for you. When you use a coach, you yourself should have a pretty good idea of what to drill before the session. You run it by him just to see what he says, and don't follow his lead blindly especially when your game is so unconventional. If it feels pingpong-ish, it probably is so stop and re-think. There should be a method to your drill no matter what style. Drill very simple and try to keep your individual strokes identical from one to the next. Crooked or not, that's not the point.
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Pushblocker
Gold Member Joined: 12/09/2009 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 1976 |
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I was just wondering.. If someone is really such a good player or coach, they would not want to stay anonymous.. A good coach would have his name and credentials in his signature to attract potential students. You did neither. I understand, as also my coach, that my technique is far from perfect and likely will never be as it makes no sense to re-learn a completly new technique at that age. Getting to a 2300 rating with no coaching at all shows that I did something right. There is a difference between correct style and effectiveness. I know players who play a perfectly looking forehand and backhand, yet I beat them 3:0 every time. I wanted to add to my game and build on what I have and not trying to re-learn the game in the theoretically correct way. Most players who learn TT the correct way never get to the rating that I have already achieved. I'm not looking for a perfect style but for being effective and successful. I don't care if I win ugly or beautiful. It's about winning..
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2010 Florida State Champion
Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
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ByeByeAbout
Super Member Joined: 03/24/2014 Location: Canada/SE ASIA Status: Offline Points: 407 |
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I don't even now if im in the system...i think if you don't play in a sanctioned event for a yr or something then you're off the radar....im guessing...im sure there is a very specific policy somewhere... whatever level i was at im 3-4 times better than i was then.... guess that puts me around 5500....but i willing to round down to 5000 lest anyone think im being self aggrandizing......wouldn't want that. regards rick |
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