Europe Top 12

anyone have the Women's finals? can't find it on ettutv

Thank you alfas!!!

takaaki wrote:   yeah, i saw that.  i honestly feel sorry for vladi--he just couldn't finish timo off.   wasn't it the same at last year's euro top-12??  wasn't he up 3-1 on schlager and lost??  and then in the olympics, wasn't he up 3-1 again (this time, on persson) and lost??  and then, at one of the pro tour stops last year, wasn't he up 3-1 on wang hao and lost??   so, anyone playing him from now on will probably be thinking that vladi is only good for 4 sets, even if he gets to match point...

Couldnt have said it better.

Wladi-Kreanga:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuBOG13oqGM
Boll-Maze:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXAnwlcLmw

naijachief wrote: takaaki wrote: � yeah, i saw that.� i honestly feel sorry for vladi--he just couldn't finish timo off. � wasn't it the same at last year's euro top-12??��wasn't he up 3-1 on schlager and lost??� and then in the olympics, wasn't he up 3-1 again (this time, on persson) and lost??� and then, at one of the pro tour stops last year, wasn't he up 3-1 on wang hao and lost?? � so, anyone playing him from now on will probably be thinking that vladi is only good for 4 sets, even if he gets to match point... Couldnt have said it better.

You have to keep in mind that Vladi is like 33 or something. I belive he is the oldest player in the top 10 right now, or one of the oldest. He may be just running out of gas after 4th set. You can't run like you are in your 20-es when you are 33. Same applies to Pearsson who is like 40 or something.... On that level it (fitness) makes a big difference...

stan1551 wrote: naijachief wrote: takaaki wrote:   yeah, i saw that.  i honestly feel sorry for vladi--he just couldn't finish timo off.   wasn't it the same at last year's euro top-12??  wasn't he up 3-1 on schlager and lost??  and then in the olympics, wasn't he up 3-1 again (this time, on persson) and lost??  and then, at one of the pro tour stops last year, wasn't he up 3-1 on wang hao and lost??   so, anyone playing him from now on will probably be thinking that vladi is only good for 4 sets, even if he gets to match point... Couldnt have said it better. You have to keep in mind that Vladi is like 33 or something. I belive he is the oldest player in the top 10 right now, or one of the oldest. He may be just running out of gas after 4th set. You can't run like you are in your 20-es when you are 33. Same applies to Pearsson who is like 40 or something.... On that level it (fitness) makes a big difference...

yeah, i totally agree.  and you're right, he IS the oldest guy in the top-10.  as far as the rest of the top-20, persson and schlager are up there, too, in the age department...  persson's the oldest...

so, he has a lotta pressure on him right now.  cuz when he plays a guy like boll, he's gotta beat him 4-zip, or 4-1, to win the match.  cuz if it goes longer than that, he'll probably lose...

anybody record womens final or semi-final?

Samsonov vs. Kreanga http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NCHOKLPS

Timo Boll-Wladimir Samsonov Final:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9D88AcmLjI

Were there no defensive players?

varghesep wrote: Were there no defensive players?

alfas wrote: Kreanga vs. Maze  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CISFL8EF Boll vs. Samsonov http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KJB1RQ7I Ovcarov vs. Maze  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LMT9Z7PA Samara vs. Pavlovich http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4SAAU7LQ   Bon Apetit

Thanks much, my friend!

sprite wrote: stan1551 wrote: Dima's problem may be just psychological. For sure - not luck of fitness at his age. If you recall - much younger Ma Lin loosing to 40 years old Waldner at 2004 Olympics. Once in a blue moon anything could happen. For Vladi - it looks more like a pattern lately. Yes, Dima's trouble is psychological and he probably will overcome it with more experience. But I do not believe that Vladi's problem is due to age related endurance or stamina issues, this was the point of my post. The 9 years older Persson won against younger players as well as Vladi in 7 game matches. Vladi's problem is lack of power, imo. This allows players the opportunity to change tactics and eliminate whatever advantage Vladi is exploiting. He uses even less power than Timo. Power is more important now than ever.

I agree. You have a point. The reason I think it may be related to fitness (or luck of) and/or age - is when I was watching the match - it was so clear how easy Vladi won first 2 sets, there was no contest, then next 3 sets Boll gradually but steadily bounced back and the last 2 sets looked like Vladi just did not have the power at all....like he did not even believed himself - he can possibly win... But he had the power for the first 2 sets, did not he? I can feel his pain as being old man myself....

sprite wrote: stan1551 wrote: Dima's problem may be just psychological. For sure - not luck of fitness at his age. If you recall - much younger Ma Lin loosing to 40 years old Waldner at 2004 Olympics. Once in a blue moon anything could happen. For Vladi - it looks more like a pattern lately. Yes, Dima's trouble is psychological and he probably will overcome it with more experience. But I do not believe that Vladi's problem is due to age related endurance or stamina issues, this was the point of my post. The 9 years older Persson won against younger players as well as Vladi in 7 game matches. Vladi's problem is lack of power, imo. This allows players the opportunity to change tactics and eliminate whatever advantage Vladi is exploiting. He uses even less power than Timo. Power is more important now than ever.

power is not the ultimate key to victory as some of you younger people might assume.

dima lost to 2 old swedes lately, persson and appelgren.  did he lose those matches due to a lack of power??

if anything, it was a lack of mental power, not physical. 

at that level, the game is quite cerebral.  you WILL lose if, for any reason, you are unable to anticipate your opponent's next move and (or) get your body (arm, hand, racket) into position for the next ball.  just having big muscles won't help one iota, if you don't a clue as to what to do with them!!

whether or not he's stronger than persson is debatable, but dima is clearly stronger than appelgren, yet the old guy beat him anyway.

tactics, my friend, is everything.  power will not help you if you don't know what to do.  if you don't know where the next ball is gonna land, or what spin is on the ball, or how much spin is on the ball, then there's NOTHING you can do and the game is over!!

samsonov did NOT lose to boll due to a lack of power.  he lost cuz of tactics.  boll kept the ball to samsonov's middle, well, what i call the "gap," y'know, that space btw fh and bh.

well, that varies from person to person, but, in general, the longer the arms, the bigger the gap.

to keep samsonov honest, he hit a few balls out wide to the fh, but most of the "kill shots" were into vladi's body.

at the beginning of the match, vladi was ready for that and bh-ripped the balls out wide to boll's fh for winners, but boll started mixing the placement and vladi tightened up (which, i concede, could have been due to fatigue, as someone stated above) and forgot what won him those 3 sets.

but also, he shoulda took a page out of wlq's book.

look at the game boll & wlq played at the tourney of champs last month.

wlq inside-out-ripped the ball out wide to boll's bh and the ball just spinned off boll's racket.

now how did that happen??  why didn't boll just "power" the ball back??  he has enough power, does he not? 

the ball spinned off his racket, cuz he had the wrong racket angle. 

now, why did he have the wrong racket angle??  cuz he didn't anticipate the shot.

why didn't he anticipate the shot??  cuz he hadn't practiced against it.  if you don't do it in practice, then you're not gonna do it in the game.

now, how did wang come to hit that shot??  did it just come out of nowhere??  was it just luck??  no, that kind of precision doesn't come outta nowhere nor from luck.  it was a plan.  it was TACTICS.

there is nothing else, but tactics. 

take a look at the appelgren-dima match again.  appelgren is obviously an old guy and is not fit enough to beat dima in a counterlooping exchange.  so, what did he do??  he basically, as best as he could, took the counterlooping out of the game.

there really weren't many counterlooping rallies, at least not enough to benefit dima. 

why??  again, tactics!! there's no way around it...

but, there may have been another reason for dima's loss...  i can  speak a little german and i noticed that in the post-game interview, appelgren was quick to point out that this was NOT the 1st time he had beaten dima.  he beat him a long time ago when he was a kid (i can't remember now, but i think he said it was something like 10 years ago).

well, somebody said in the energis masters thread that he heard dima was extremely nervous when he first found out he was gonna have to play appel.

maybe appel beat the crap out of him a zillion years ago and, y'know, when ya beat the crap out of a kid, they never get over it...