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Long Pips versus Anti Spin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 6:05pm
Matt, thanks so much. I would like to experiment some more. Do you feel there is more of an upside to Anti over LP? Next time you are about to throw out an old sheet of anti (red) please think of me. :-). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 6:20pm

Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Do you feel there is more of an upside to Anti over LP?
I personally think so because you get massive spin reversal like in the old frictionless LP days and not a lot of people know what to do against it. But that's my personal opinion and preference.

 
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

Next time you are about to throw out an old sheet of anti (red) please think of me.
I have an old sheet of ABS 1.2 which I am not using anymore and I have a sheet of Grizzly with ABS 1.2 sponge which I only played for 4h. Both in red.
The Grizzly-ABS is a little bit faster than ABS but still with decent control. I would only recommend it for a slower blade though; I thought it was too fast for an Off blade whereas some high level people in Germany for example (like USATT 2300-2500) play the ABS or Beast on fast carbon blades.
Google/Youtube "Simon Huth" and watch his videos! He plays with a Dr. N anti. A couple of years ago he beat Ruwen Filus (#70 in the world now) at a state tournament. Another good anti player (also Dr. N) is "Jens Gester".


Edited by Matt Pimple - 02/27/2014 at 6:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 6:28pm
Matt, thanks!! I'd love to give them a go, but don't donate anything you could sell. I would offer $, but I'm so poor I even sold my new sheet of Grass DtecS and posted an ad looking for a used sheet. Sad, but true. :-0

Is this Simon Huth?

http://www.tt-total.tv/regional/suedwest/videos/ansicht/turniere/2009-2010/hessische-meisterschaften-2010/teil-1-der-hessischen-meisterschaften-2010/huth-froehlich-wagenbach-teil-1/

A quote I found:

"Huth uses Dr Neubauer Anti Special 1.8mm amd Tenergy 05 2.1mm. He also said he tried the ABS, which is easier to play, but he gets more spin reversal from the Anti Special, and at his level that's what's most important."


Edited by tommyzai - 9 minutes ago at 3:38pm
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Edited by tommyzai - 02/27/2014 at 6:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 6:32pm
:-)

Edited by tommyzai - 02/27/2014 at 6:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 8:33pm
thanks Matt thats the first time i heard that slick antis gives more reversal then current LPs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 8:33pm
I'd take MP over anti or LP. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

I'd take MP over anti or LP. Big smile
I used to do that too for many years but changed my mind more recently. Wink
 
Originally posted by JohnnyChop JohnnyChop wrote:

thanks Matt thats the first time i heard that slick antis gives more reversal then current LPs!
Yes, indeed you get very heavy reversal like I said similar to banned frictionless LPs (some say even better). But please also keep in mind that current LPs give you very good reversal on chopping (as in: you need to use a very active stroke!) whereas on slick anti you get very heavy reversal on a passive stroke (as in: the less the better!). So it's aimed at a different type of game. I want to defend and chop away from the table you want to use LP, whereas for a disruptive blocking game close to the table the slick anti is more dangerous (some argue that it is also more difficult to control).
 
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:


Is this Simon Huth?

http://www.tt-total.tv/regional/suedwest/videos/ansicht/turniere/2009-2010/hessische-meisterschaften-2010/teil-1-der-hessischen-meisterschaften-2010/huth-froehlich-wagenbach-teil-1/

A quote I found:

"Huth uses Dr Neubauer Anti Special 1.8mm amd Tenergy 05 2.1mm. He also said he tried the ABS, which is easier to play, but he gets more spin reversal from the Anti Special, and at his level that's what's most important."


Edited by tommyzai - 9 minutes ago at 3:38pm
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Yes, that him! I'd say he is probably around 2500 USATT but as you can see in the video he also twiddles a lot. Try to find the video of Huth beating Filus which is amazing! LOL
I forgot that he actually uses Dr N Anti Special which is better for further away from the table than the ABS. Some players like to use a little thicker sponge as it is a little bit easier to block real hard loops (less tendency for the sponge to bottom out; ABS sponge is actually quite hard by the way and many believe the best sponge for slick anti) but the thinner sponge gives more disruptive effect and plays a little bit more like ox in terms of feel.
Another player to watch might be Amelie Solja from Germany (she plays now internationally for Austria); she is around 60 in the world and uses the Grizzly-ABS which I already mentioned above. Check out her video on how she uses the anti. She only uses 2 stokes: an aggressive push against underspin (resulting in topspin) and a passive block against topspin loop (resulting in heavy underspin). It does not look pretty but it is very effective and it is amazing to see how consistent she plays with the anti.
Also check out the player Maik Schonknecht in this series of videos; I would guess his USATT would be around 2350-2400:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 9:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 9:42pm
MP will give the ball more variation than anti or LP, the 'sink' effect can give better position and placement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by jt99sf jt99sf wrote:

MP will give the ball more variation than anti or LP, the 'sink' effect can give better position and placement.
I am not sure I would treat this as a fact but I guess it depends on the players abilities and the specific style. MP and slick anti are very niche rubbers for sure that only work for a very specific playing style (otherwise a lot more people would use it).
I have yet to meet a guy in the US who is familiar with slick anti from Dr. N or Der Materialspezialist; there are a few more people in Germany who use it but it still very exotic there too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

I have been using Grass DtecS LPs for about 2-years. I have been very successful at an intermediate level with 1750 being the highest level player I won games off. In all fairness to myself, I have not played anyone higher than that lately to determine if I could win games, but I suspect NO. I have a lot of trouble playing a combination game against players with old dead rubbers or short pips . . . they do not give me any spin to work with. I tried Dr. N Gorilla one night and it was a disaster. I'm not saying it isn't good; I'm just saying it requires a much different stroke than LPs. I particularly had trouble returning serves. Chop blocking did not work. I would like to try anti again, but I'm just not sure I it will be more effective for me than LPs. Yet, I need to make some changes. It's become clear to me that I will never see 2000 level the way I'm going with LPs on BH.


Your rubber Grass DtecS LPs in OX is the best control LP's I have ever used. You probably would be better to get some coaching on how to deal with dead balls using the LP's than switch to the Anti.

I have had other Anti players want to buy mine because of the pillow sponge absorption in close to the table play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

You probably would be better to get some coaching on how to deal with dead balls using the LP's than switch to the Anti.
By the way, with slick anti dead balls are the most difficult balls to play but I think they are easier to deal with with regular anti
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 10:43pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:

You probably would be better to get some coaching on how to deal with dead balls using the LP's than switch to the Anti.

By the way, with slick anti dead balls are the most difficult balls to play but I think they are easier to deal with with regular anti


I don't disagree with you there, my suggestion was made since he has played with LP's for 2 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2014 at 11:08pm
I, personally, do not want to play a Dr. Neubauer style whereby I stand up against the table and chicken-wing everything with an oversized blade that has a reversal rubber on it. There is nothing wrong with that style of play if it suits you, but that does not take advantage of some of my strengths, i.e., quick, athletic, and enjoy taking points with forehand. I was inspired by watching Huth play — he attacks with his BH and also uses his BH to set up his FH. I want to take points; I do not want to hope my opponent makes mistakes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Pimple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2014 at 11:58am
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

I was inspired by watching Huth play — he attacks with his BH and also uses his BH to set up his FH. I want to take points; I do not want to hope my opponent makes mistakes.
Tommy, I like to watch Huth a lot too. But do not forgot that he twiddles and attack with inverted on BH. That requires a lot of practice and skill.
Also, check out videos of Jens Gester who does not twiddle but has a very good FH attack as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2014 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by Matt Pimple Matt Pimple wrote:

[QUOTE=tommyzai] . . . But do not forgot that he twiddles and attack with inverted on BH. That requires a lot of practice and skill.

No wonder I was amazed!! LOL Still, his game is inspiring. I really need to start twiddling correctly — using my other hand to help spin the blade is probably not a good technique. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2014 at 6:19pm

Using LP's, how about Ding Yaping, the Chinese female legend, she did quite well with a blocking punching LP BH and a 4H attack.

An amateur player could play a much lower level of her style and still be very successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2014 at 6:22pm
lots of lp hitters complain about pip breakage… i don't think its the best style unless you have like unlimited stock to work with!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mhmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2015 at 11:37am
Sorry for reviving an old thread. Which of all the pimples and anti's, is best against underspin/receiving serves(Sidespins/underspin only). 

Edited by Mhmm - 02/21/2015 at 11:38am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2015 at 8:23pm
There is no best anti or LP.  Everything is a trade off.  If you just want to get spinny balls back then a frictionless LP or anti would be the best choice.   GD Talon 0X and Grass D Tecs 0X have low friction especially if you contact the ball directly with a sharp motion.  Side swipes or attempts to top spin the ball or chop bend the pips resulting in more friction.   You have to learn from experience what that does but in general in increases the friction.

Matt Pimple mentioned Dr N ABS anti. Der Materialspecializt also has slick antis.  The people that use these antis claim they have less friction and provide more reversal than many or most LP 0X.

In general the lower the friction the easier it will be to just get the ball back.  The problem is that you won't be able to get the ball back aggressively.  You can't loop.  You need to substitute placement and reducing the opponent's reaction time by hitting off the block.  Better yet, learn to twiddle too.

Go back and read the thread.  There is a lot of good info there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyChop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2015 at 8:28pm
Technique is the best!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2015 at 1:24am
Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


Using LP's, how about Ding Yaping, the Chinese female legend, she did quite well with a blocking punching LP BH and a 4H attack.

An amateur player could play a much lower level of her style and still be very successful.



you re wrong , the legend is deng yaping and she was an attacker , ding yaping is a defensive chinese player playing bundesliga
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2015 at 3:17am
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by LUCKYLOOP LUCKYLOOP wrote:


Using LP's, how about Ding Yaping, the Chinese female legend, she did quite well with a blocking punching LP BH and a 4H attack.

An amateur player could play a much lower level of her style and still be very successful.




you re wrong , the legend is deng yaping and she was an attacker , ding yaping is a defensive chinese player playing bundesliga


That is who I meant, just spelled her name wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2015 at 3:23am
Here is a link to help LP or anti spin players .. beginners through advanced but mostly for developing players and seniors:

LINK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mhmm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2015 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

There is no best anti or LP.  Everything is a trade off.  If you just want to get spinny balls back then a frictionless LP or anti would be the best choice.   GD Talon 0X and Grass D Tecs 0X have low friction especially if you contact the ball directly with a sharp motion.  Side swipes or attempts to top spin the ball or chop bend the pips resulting in more friction.   You have to learn from experience what that does but in general in increases the friction.

Matt Pimple mentioned Dr N ABS anti. Der Materialspecializt also has slick antis.  The people that use these antis claim they have less friction and provide more reversal than many or most LP 0X.

In general the lower the friction the easier it will be to just get the ball back.  The problem is that you won't be able to get the ball back aggressively.  You can't loop.  You need to substitute placement and reducing the opponent's reaction time by hitting off the block.  Better yet, learn to twiddle too.

Go back and read the thread.  There is a lot of good info there.



Cheers a lot for the reply mate. So what is the benefit of an anti in comparison to a frictionless LP like the Grass D Tecs? The Grass D tecs has some great reviews in imparting your own spin and chopping as well as the reversing spin/deception of an Anti. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/22/2015 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Mhmm Mhmm wrote:

Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

There is no best anti or LP.  Everything is a trade off.  If you just want to get spinny balls back then a frictionless LP or anti would be the best choice.   GD Talon 0X and Grass D Tecs 0X have low friction especially if you contact the ball directly with a sharp motion.  Side swipes or attempts to top spin the ball or chop bend the pips resulting in more friction.   You have to learn from experience what that does but in general in increases the friction.

Matt Pimple mentioned Dr N ABS anti. Der Materialspecializt also has slick antis.  The people that use these antis claim they have less friction and provide more reversal than many or most LP 0X.

In general the lower the friction the easier it will be to just get the ball back.  The problem is that you won't be able to get the ball back aggressively.  You can't loop.  You need to substitute placement and reducing the opponent's reaction time by hitting off the block.  Better yet, learn to twiddle too.

Go back and read the thread.  There is a lot of good info there.



Cheers a lot for the reply mate. So what is the benefit of an anti in comparison to a frictionless LP like the Grass D Tecs?
The German Anti rubbers have sponge that can absorb energy and still be slick.  LPs start to gain friction when they have sponge but then they can absorb fast loops better.

Quote
 The Grass D tecs has some great reviews in imparting your own spin and chopping as well as the reversing spin/deception of an Anti.
Yes, I have seen the different Grass D tec reviews.  The skill level of the player seems to play a big part of the review.

If you want to play at the table and push block I would look at a paddle like Matt Pimple has.   Dr N and Der Materialspecializt have slick anti rubbers that are more frictionless than the current almost frictionless LPs like GD Talon.

I don't believe in this "deception" non-sense.  No one has explained what force causes "deception".  The good players aren't deceived.  The weak players simply don't understand what is happening or can't adjust during a rally.

Anti's are great for blocking and punch blocking.  They can kill spin and speed if you leave a ball hanging it will become "slam bait".

I would like to get a setup like what Matt Pimple has someday and compare it to my Firewall Plus paddles with GD Talon 0X on them.  I have not be playing with the LP paddles lately and when I try to use them now I suck because I have lost the soft touch required to block fast loops and keep them on the table.  A dead frictionless anti should be able to make it easier to handle these kinds of shots.

I do agree with those above that say one has more options with LP.  One can bounce the ball back with a sharp block so that the pips don't bend resulting in maximum spin reversal.  It is also possible to bend the pips by striking the ball more tangentially to get more friction.










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