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Long Pips versus Anti Spin |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Matt, thanks so much. I would like to experiment some more. Do you feel there is more of an upside to Anti over LP? Next time you are about to throw out an old sheet of anti (red) please think of me. :-).
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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I have an old sheet of ABS 1.2 which I am not using anymore and I have a sheet of Grizzly with ABS 1.2 sponge which I only played for 4h. Both in red.
The Grizzly-ABS is a little bit faster than ABS but still with decent control. I would only recommend it for a slower blade though; I thought it was too fast for an Off blade whereas some high level people in Germany for example (like USATT 2300-2500) play the ABS or Beast on fast carbon blades.
Google/Youtube "Simon Huth" and watch his videos! He plays with a Dr. N anti. A couple of years ago he beat Ruwen Filus (#70 in the world now) at a state tournament. Another good anti player (also Dr. N) is "Jens Gester". Edited by Matt Pimple - 02/27/2014 at 6:21pm |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Matt, thanks!! I'd love to give them a go, but don't donate anything you could sell. I would offer $, but I'm so poor I even sold my new sheet of Grass DtecS and posted an ad looking for a used sheet. Sad, but true. :-0
Edited by tommyzai - 02/27/2014 at 6:48pm |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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:-)
Edited by tommyzai - 02/27/2014 at 6:48pm |
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JohnnyChop
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2010 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 1159 |
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thanks Matt thats the first time i heard that slick antis gives more reversal then current LPs!
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729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4946 |
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I'd take MP over anti or LP.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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I used to do that too for many years but changed my mind more recently.
Yes, indeed you get very heavy reversal like I said similar to banned frictionless LPs (some say even better). But please also keep in mind that current LPs give you very good reversal on chopping (as in: you need to use a very active stroke!) whereas on slick anti you get very heavy reversal on a passive stroke (as in: the less the better!). So it's aimed at a different type of game. I want to defend and chop away from the table you want to use LP, whereas for a disruptive blocking game close to the table the slick anti is more dangerous (some argue that it is also more difficult to control).
Yes, that him! I'd say he is probably around 2500 USATT but as you can see in the video he also twiddles a lot. Try to find the video of Huth beating Filus which is amazing! I forgot that he actually uses Dr N Anti Special which is better for further away from the table than the ABS. Some players like to use a little thicker sponge as it is a little bit easier to block real hard loops (less tendency for the sponge to bottom out; ABS sponge is actually quite hard by the way and many believe the best sponge for slick anti) but the thinner sponge gives more disruptive effect and plays a little bit more like ox in terms of feel. Another player to watch might be Amelie Solja from Germany (she plays now internationally for Austria); she is around 60 in the world and uses the Grizzly-ABS which I already mentioned above. Check out her video on how she uses the anti. She only uses 2 stokes: an aggressive push against underspin (resulting in topspin) and a passive block against topspin loop (resulting in heavy underspin). It does not look pretty but it is very effective and it is amazing to see how consistent she plays with the anti. Also check out the player Maik Schonknecht in this series of videos; I would guess his USATT would be around 2350-2400: |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Just found it:
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4946 |
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MP will give the ball more variation than anti or LP, the 'sink' effect can give better position and placement.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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I am not sure I would treat this as a fact but I guess it depends on the players abilities and the specific style. MP and slick anti are very niche rubbers for sure that only work for a very specific playing style (otherwise a lot more people would use it). I have yet to meet a guy in the US who is familiar with slick anti from Dr. N or Der Materialspezialist; there are a few more people in Germany who use it but it still very exotic there too.
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Your rubber Grass DtecS LPs in OX is the best control LP's I have ever used. You probably would be better to get some coaching on how to deal with dead balls using the LP's than switch to the Anti. I have had other Anti players want to buy mine because of the pillow sponge absorption in close to the table play. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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By the way, with slick anti dead balls are the most difficult balls to play but I think they are easier to deal with with regular anti
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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I don't disagree with you there, my suggestion was made since he has played with LP's for 2 years. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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I, personally, do not want to play a Dr. Neubauer style whereby I stand up against the table and chicken-wing everything with an oversized blade that has a reversal rubber on it. There is nothing wrong with that style of play if it suits you, but that does not take advantage of some of my strengths, i.e., quick, athletic, and enjoy taking points with forehand. I was inspired by watching Huth play — he attacks with his BH and also uses his BH to set up his FH. I want to take points; I do not want to hope my opponent makes mistakes.
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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Also, check out videos of Jens Gester who does not twiddle but has a very good FH attack as well.
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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No wonder I was amazed!! LOL Still, his game is inspiring. I really need to start twiddling correctly — using my other hand to help spin the blade is probably not a good technique. :-)
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Using LP's, how about Ding Yaping, the Chinese female legend, she did quite well with a blocking punching LP BH and a 4H attack. An amateur player could play a much lower level of her style and still be very successful. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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JohnnyChop
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2010 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 1159 |
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lots of lp hitters complain about pip breakage… i don't think its the best style unless you have like unlimited stock to work with!!!
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729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1
Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
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Mhmm
Beginner Joined: 02/11/2015 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Sorry for reviving an old thread. Which of all the pimples and anti's, is best against underspin/receiving serves(Sidespins/underspin only).
Edited by Mhmm - 02/21/2015 at 11:38am |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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There is no best anti or LP. Everything is a trade off. If you just want to get spinny balls back then a frictionless LP or anti would be the best choice. GD Talon 0X and Grass D Tecs 0X have low friction especially if you contact the ball directly with a sharp motion. Side swipes or attempts to top spin the ball or chop bend the pips resulting in more friction. You have to learn from experience what that does but in general in increases the friction.
Matt Pimple mentioned Dr N ABS anti. Der Materialspecializt also has slick antis. The people that use these antis claim they have less friction and provide more reversal than many or most LP 0X. In general the lower the friction the easier it will be to just get the ball back. The problem is that you won't be able to get the ball back aggressively. You can't loop. You need to substitute placement and reducing the opponent's reaction time by hitting off the block. Better yet, learn to twiddle too. Go back and read the thread. There is a lot of good info there. |
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JohnnyChop
Gold Member Joined: 05/02/2010 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 1159 |
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Technique is the best!!!!
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729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1
Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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you re wrong , the legend is deng yaping and she was an attacker , ding yaping is a defensive chinese player playing bundesliga
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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That is who I meant, just spelled her name wrong. |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Here is a link to help LP or anti spin players .. beginners through advanced but mostly for developing players and seniors:
LINK |
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Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX |
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Mhmm
Beginner Joined: 02/11/2015 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Cheers a lot for the reply mate. So what is the benefit of an anti in comparison to a frictionless LP like the Grass D Tecs? The Grass D tecs has some great reviews in imparting your own spin and chopping as well as the reversing spin/deception of an Anti. |
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pnachtwey
Platinum Member Joined: 03/09/2010 Location: Vancouver, WA Status: Offline Points: 2035 |
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The German Anti rubbers have sponge that can absorb energy and still be slick. LPs start to gain friction when they have sponge but then they can absorb fast loops better.
Yes, I have seen the different Grass D tec reviews. The skill level of the player seems to play a big part of the review. If you want to play at the table and push block I would look at a paddle like Matt Pimple has. Dr N and Der Materialspecializt have slick anti rubbers that are more frictionless than the current almost frictionless LPs like GD Talon. I don't believe in this "deception" non-sense. No one has explained what force causes "deception". The good players aren't deceived. The weak players simply don't understand what is happening or can't adjust during a rally. Anti's are great for blocking and punch blocking. They can kill spin and speed if you leave a ball hanging it will become "slam bait". I would like to get a setup like what Matt Pimple has someday and compare it to my Firewall Plus paddles with GD Talon 0X on them. I have not be playing with the LP paddles lately and when I try to use them now I suck because I have lost the soft touch required to block fast loops and keep them on the table. A dead frictionless anti should be able to make it easier to handle these kinds of shots. I do agree with those above that say one has more options with LP. One can bounce the ball back with a sharp block so that the pips don't bend resulting in maximum spin reversal. It is also possible to bend the pips by striking the ball more tangentially to get more friction. |
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