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Koto wood vs. limba wood |
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hut8 
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 Topic: Koto wood vs. limba woodPosted: 11/01/2008 at 9:38am |
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lima vs. koto outer plies which is harder,which more springy which is more durable.
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hut8
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Posted: 11/01/2008 at 11:32am |
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tell me
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BKTT
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Posted: 11/01/2008 at 12:13pm |
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Assuming the thicknes is the same,
Koto is harder, and limba softer. |
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Jolan
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Posted: 11/01/2008 at 1:33pm |
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That's what I thought too, but I recently played with a MMaze rocket hard like a rock just after playing with an old TBS which felt much softer actually. So I'd say, in genral : yes, limba softer, but sometimes you might find exceptions. |
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BKTT
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Posted: 11/02/2008 at 1:26am |
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possibly due to the inner plies on this occasion? (also sometimes the veneers are not of the intended thickness as the designer wants it)
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firetack
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Posted: 11/02/2008 at 7:40am |
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which has more rebound.koto or limba?
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Black Balsa 3.0 fh/tenergy 05 1.9 388d ox
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W0LovePP
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Posted: 09/26/2014 at 10:45am |
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Could someone respond to firetack's post? In other words, which has better short game (better control near the table), koto or limba as surface veneer?
Assuming everything else is the same.
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cole_ely
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Posted: 09/26/2014 at 11:08am |
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This is exactly true. It seems to vary by batch. TBS uses neither limba nor koto to my rememberance. It's something different that looks like ayous, but has a bit of a yellow pine look. Someone will tell us.
Edited by cole_ely - 09/26/2014 at 11:15am |
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Dorje
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Posted: 09/26/2014 at 2:30pm |
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Koto vs Limba outer layer. Koto: Koto has short dwell time so it is great for players who prefers that spin is generated more with the rubbers topsheet than sponge. It has good speed for smashes due to short dwell time. Fibres are quite densely connected, hence it usually does not splinter off. It is suitable for players who likes to "rebound" the ball back for the soft touches, doesn't like the ball to stay on the blade too long. It is good for close to the table attackers. Under that quite hard koto surface layer we do not see second layer as carbon only (carbon is always mixed with some other type of fiber: Arylate, Aramid, Kevlar, Zylon...). If second layer is pure carbon, than the blade has ussually hinoki surface. Limba: Limba has quite long dwell time so it is great
for players who prefers that spin is
generated with the rubbers sponge not as much as with the topsheet.
Limba by itself has low speed due to long dwell time, which is probably
(correct me if I am wrong) due to a bit loosely connected wood fibres of the
wood type (which is also the reason why it sometimes splinters off). Limba is
suitable for players who prefers to hold the ball longer on the racket and
those who prefer to generate the power shots by himself. Some players for
example: Jun Mizutani, Vladimir Samsanov, Petr Korbel.
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Timo Boll Spirit An
Fh: Joola Rhyzm Max red Bh: Tibhar Aurus Max black |
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slevin
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Posted: 04/02/2015 at 4:43pm |
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A brief note on this topic.
In Sid's excellent thread explaining the properties of various popular BTY blades, he commented:
I look at what Sid recommends (basically that if you like going through the ball with open paddle rather than brushing it, eschew Limba and use Koto outers instead). Then, I look at the world's top players' games and select one guy who would have specifically that kind of game that Sid describes. Kind of like the world's Koto representative. It would have to be Ma Long. More than any other player in the world. Except that Ma Long actually uses a Innerforce type blade with Limba outers! So, it is not as apparent as it seems. I think Koto vs Limba choice also depends on the rubber one wants to use. In Europe, TB-ALC might be the most popular blade among pros & they pair it with T05. However, when I look at the pros that use MX-P (Drinkhall, Samsonov, Freitas, Tokic, etc) they all seem to be pairing that rubber with blades that have limba outers. The reason I bring this up is that as I've moved from T05 to harder Tensor rubbers, I find that they match up with Limba better. MX-P feels way better on a MJ-SZLC than on a ZJK-ALC. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 04/02/2015 at 4:50pm |
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Freitas uses T05. Limba vs. Koto is largely personal. Unfortunately, we like to all pretend that these things are more scientific than they really are. Rubber choice is a different story.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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LOOPMEISTER
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Posted: 04/02/2015 at 4:54pm |
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 Considering a Timo Boll Spirit is the same construction as a Timo Boll ALC, Zhang Jike ALC, Viscaria, etc, (koto outers) but with different handles, many people are going to be surprised this revelation. Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 04/02/2015 at 5:27pm |
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lineup32
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Posted: 04/02/2015 at 7:21pm |
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FWIW: "Koto is also used in the production of sporting goods. Its wood surface plies are used in the production of some table tennis blades. ?Koto wood surface plies encourage crisp, fast blocks and hard hitting for sharper ball contact and faster rebound,? says the maker of the high-tech table tennis paddles called The Ninth Wonder, which are priced at $169 per blade. " http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/limba/ http://oneofakindtrading.com.au/Limba-table-tennis-blades.htm "When used for constructing blades, limba and ayous seem similar. They both are soft and have heavy grains. Typically the limba blades are a bit more expensive, so you'll find them more commonly in the Japanese and euro blades and the ayous more in the chinese, although there are exceptions. Limba grains seem a bit tighter and don't shed as badly. As a result it's probably just a touch harder. Both should be sealed before gluing, but ayous MUST be sealed or it WILL strip off with the rubber." |
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W0LovePP
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Posted: 04/02/2015 at 8:51pm |
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What I would like to know is which one is better for pushing/pushes, koto or limba on the surface with everything else being the same.
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asifgunz
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Posted: 04/02/2015 at 10:03pm |
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the koto on my zxi backed by zephillium carbon provides a superb kick.
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 "I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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sonykurniawan
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Posted: 04/03/2015 at 2:48am |
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Imho, koto will be more direct and limba a bit bouncy... But that also depending on the rubber. |
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Victor_the_cleaner
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Posted: 04/03/2015 at 2:18pm |
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Yes, all things equal, koto is better for pushing and short game control because it is less bouncy and more direct. I happen to completely agree with the cutoffs from line32's post.
What does Ma Long use? What is the exact contruction? It is important to note that the differences in wood are easily noticeable only if all other factors are held the same. There is a big difference between IF on one side, and Maze and Mizutani on the other. They are made of exactly same plies, (maze and if alc and mizutani and if zlc) but in different order. Putting the carbon layer immediately after the first layer of limba creates a harder feel because the wood cannot compress as much before hitting the carbon. It also makes the blade stiffer. If the carbon layers are closer together the blade will have more flex. If you put both carbon layers right in the middle, they will reduce flex very little and the touch will be almost like wood blade (but not the price). With that said, I would be very surprised if Ma Long plays with IF type of blade. If the carbon is under the first layer, that would make it Mizutani type, although I admit i never thought of Ma Long using limba at all, so..
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slevin
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Posted: 04/03/2015 at 4:40pm |
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His professional version of the Hurricane Long 5 is as follows: limba - ayous - ALC - ayous - ALC - ayous - limba |
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king_pong
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Posted: 04/05/2015 at 12:51am |
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Koto for cho's, Limba for pros
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asifgunz
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Posted: 04/05/2015 at 12:52am |
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:/ my last name starts with Cho and I'm not even Chinese. |
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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slevin
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 4:44pm |
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BTW: FZD, of course, uses limba.
Besides Ma Long, Fang Bo uses the same Innerforce-type blade with limba outers as well (I think both use the W997 which is similar to the Hurricane Long 5):
 |
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Giangt
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 5:06pm |
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aroonkl
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 5:38pm |
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I hate that funny looking picture.  What did they think when they chose it ! It gotta be better looking pic of his.  Edited by aroonkl - 04/06/2015 at 5:43pm |
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NoRema
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 5:58pm |
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If i remember correctly Ma long was a violin player for a long while wasn't he? Definitely not a koto player ;)
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Ray
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 6:16pm |
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Actually ML was Acoustic player |
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NoRema
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Posted: 04/06/2015 at 6:26pm |
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before accoustic ;)
Edited by NoRema - 04/06/2015 at 6:28pm |
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bbkon
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Posted: 04/07/2015 at 12:06am |
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and a nittaku rutis at 18
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vivan4tt
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Posted: 04/07/2015 at 7:44am |
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He played with a Timo Boll Spirit, Koto outer. see at 1min33 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40fdLema5lo And it is not like he was using it in a minor event, in fact it was the most important match of the year 2010 for him. He was sponsored by Nittaku, but Rutis and Acoustic were lacking power. ANd this is why I can't stop laughing when I read that "TBS is for European looping style" on various forums from guys that obviously know nothing about blades. Timo Boll Spirit and Timo Boll ALC are ultra popular blades in Chinese Superleague also.
Edited by vivan4tt - 04/07/2015 at 7:55am |
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Mizutani sZLC / T05fx / T05fx
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NoRema
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Posted: 04/07/2015 at 2:33pm |
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ahh, i find it hard that i forgot about the tbs, my friend actually has THAT SPECIFIC tbs  Edited by NoRema - 04/07/2015 at 2:35pm |
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lineup32
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Posted: 04/08/2015 at 11:06am |
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Good info on different woods:
http://www.tabletennisdb.com/blog/wood/
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Jolan wrote: