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Service Disguise |
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Posted: 08/20/2009 at 8:19am |
Hi all, Do you have any tips as to disguise my serves? I am happy with the serves that I can do as they work well against players who are weaker than myself but against better players they are to easy to read therefore easy to play.
I can make some vids if that would help?
Thanks,
David
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
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LachlanTan
Gold Member Joined: 08/21/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1538 |
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The best disguise is to do fake reverse pendulum. If you are referring to others, normally player can react fast enough to it e.g. angle bat as to backspin and at contact immediately do topspin flick. As pros return serves by processing information of bat motion. |
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johnny89atc
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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It is important when you want to disguise your serves to make the same move. Then you can touch the ball to different places to produce different types of spin. You can also make the same move and use your wrist more to produse heavy spin or less to make a no-spin serve. Furthermore you can make some moves before or after the serve to confuse your opponent (see Ma Lin)...
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tpgh2k
Platinum Member Joined: 09/14/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2103 |
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most basic deception is pendulum underspin/topspin. a bit tough to explain but it depends (again) on the contact point. another way to explain it would be if you hit the ball early or late in your motion...
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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johnny makes very good points.
i would only add three things: -contact the ball near the tip of the blade for heavy spin -contact the ball near the handle of the blade for no spin -learn to use the up and down motion from your legs to help you alter the contact point and timing of the serve that last one took me the longest to figure out how to do, but it allows me to make a backhand chop serve that looks like heavy under but is actually is light topspin. i can't tell you how many third ball attacks are "free" because of my opponents push it back high. |
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johnny89atc
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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tpgh2k and icontek are also right. tpgh2k (if I understand it correctly)says that when you make your pendulum serve, you should start with a motion downwards and end it with an upward motion.If you contact the ball early, you'll put underspin, in the midle of the motion it's sidespin and in the end you are going to have topspin.Ryu Seung Min makes a similar motion at his pendulum (I love his serves!)...
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Blade: OSP Virtuoso-L RST 87gr
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Waldmeister
Super Member Joined: 04/29/2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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The beginning and the end of the service motion-"way" should always look the same to your oponnent. Vary spin by hitting the ball on different points on the motion way or by altering the hitting motion, without changing beginning and end of the service stroke.
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Thanks for all the tips and advice. I made a few vids of my serves that I will convert and post tomorrow.
Thanks again, David
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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try at the very last moment before the ball contacts the racket, try to change the angle of your blade
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tpgh2k
Platinum Member Joined: 09/14/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2103 |
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Bingo! i was afraid i didn't explain it clearly |
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mjamja
Platinum Member Joined: 05/30/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2895 |
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I am relatively new to TT but I will throw in my 2 cents worth in anyway. It may be entirely wrong but you might get some ideas that might help you.
I think there are 3 basic types of deception serves. The first and simplest one just involves hitting the ball on a differnet part of the blade. The tip is always moving faster than the middle or area by the handle so it produces move spin. Unless the blade speed is really fast, a good opponent can easily see the contact point. I see this as more of reducing reaction time rather than deception, but if an opponent is not paying attention he can be completely fooled.
The 2nd method, already mentioned, involves moving the tip of the racquet in a semi-circular motion. At one point it is moving down, at another more foreward, and finally slightly up. The timing of the contact determines whether you get under, side, or top. This is the basis of deception in the pendelum serves. Of course the change of direction of the tip has to happen quickly so that the opponent can not really tell at what point the contact was made. If done too slowly, you get more of reduction in reaction time effect as in method 1.
The 3rd method involves depth perception error. In these types of serves the racket is moved straight toward the opponent and at the same time a blade angle change or a secondary movement is added. Sometimes this secondary movement is done at or just before contact and at other times just after contact. Limited depth perception of 2 in-line objects (ball and racket) can keep the oppenent from determining if the movement happened before or after contact. The "scoop" serve where the racket is pushed tip forward toward the opponent can use this. The blade can go from angled down (slight top to dead) to level (full underspin) and anywhere in between. The tip up at the end is just a follow through effect but does add some more deception. You can also do a side-spin deception with the scoop. Start with the basic timing for the underspin (level blade) serve. Then add or fake a side-spin component by raising one side of the blade just before (side-under) or just after (under only) contact.
Another version of the depth perception effect is making a wrist snap at contact or slightly after contact. If the blade angle is kept constant and farily hoizontal you can produce heavy underspin with wrist snap at contact and very light underspin if the snap is done after contact without the opponent being able to read if the snap was at or after contact. Blade movent needs to be straight at the opponent. If there is too much side movement it becomes eaiser to tell if the snap was at or after contact. The last version involves an up and then down motion. Usually it is a down and forward motion followed by an up and back motion. Contact on the down and forward part creates underspin. Contact on the up and back (even with an open racket) produces topspin. Just as with the pendulum serve, the timing difference between down and up contact points must be really small. I like to combine this with a little side-spin producing motion. I think it is harder to recognize side-top vs side-under than it is to see top vs under when watching the ball bounce.
Good luck with your servers.
Mark
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figgie
Gold Member Joined: 01/28/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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I am going against everyone on here.
First off, if your serves are being attacked by stronger players. That means it is not low enough and/or spinny enough. Before working on deception, work on those two as those will reap benifits before deception makes an ounce of diffrence. With that said, how is are your short serves (double bounce) and you long serves? Or are both type just big blob riding somewhere in the middle? ;) get where I am coming from? |
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Thanks, I will keep this in mind. Mostly my serves are double bounce but I do vary the length and against weaker players I serve long so the I get a long return that is fairly easy to attack.
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Low Tek
Super Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 270 |
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Hehehe. I can confirm this. Tuan loves my Pendulum serves. =] Also, when doing a Pendulum Serve make note of where the ending point of your motion occurs. I noticed that sometimes when I did an Underspin serve my racket motion would end with my blade being flat. While my topspin serves ended with my racket in a more open position. Some players would see this and use the ending motion to see what kind of spin I put on the ball. After practicing in a mirror I saw how my ending motion would give away the spin. I now try to end my motion with an open racket for both types of serves. |
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Video as Promised. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di9IoKVR-Os Sorry for not embedding this! More videos will be posted tomorrow. Any tips/views/advice welcome.
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
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ChopSmash
Super Member Joined: 08/22/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 153 |
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Your serves are very visible. Contact with the ball is out in front on the body, and is rather easy to see what the racket is doing. Many opponents get clues about serve spin by seeing what the racket is doing. I suggest that you make the racket less visible, and therefore make it more difficult for the opponent to see what the racket is doing. The ball has to be visible at all times, but the racket doesn't. You can hide what the racket is doing in any way you want. To make the racket less visible, contact with the ball should not be out in front of the body. Make contact closer to the right side of the body, and turn the body farther toward the right. Make small changes, a little at a time, over weeks, or even months.
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Thanks ChopSmash. Do you think that I should stand more 'side on' to the table in order to hide the contact?
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
Fh - Boost TC 2.0mm Bh - Boost TC 2.0mm |
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tpgh2k
Platinum Member Joined: 09/14/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2103 |
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i would stand near the corner as much as possible. you contact the ball a bit high also. just make sure that the bounce isn't too high. or else your serves will get murdered.
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www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
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Dafydd393
Super Member Joined: 07/13/2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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When playing on a proper table I do stand near the corner (left leg in line with the table leg) but as this was shot in my kitchen, space was limited and to get my serve in shot I had to stand further in and back.
EDIT: New video uploaded!
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Blade - Ma Lin Extra Offensive FL
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ChopSmash
Super Member Joined: 08/22/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 153 |
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<<<<more 'side on' to the table>>>
Yes. Turn the body more toward the right. And, as tphg2k wrote, get a little bit lower. Bend over at the waist a bit. Bend the knees a bit more. |
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