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New Style of Looping - Kenta & Ovtcharov

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S.O.M. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Style of Looping - Kenta & Ovtcharov
    Posted: 02/05/2010 at 8:31pm
Looping is designed to affectively deliver power through torque and acceleration.  But how are such compact strokes attaining success?  Neither of their strokes have enough distance to gain maximum velocity nor enough radius to produce power.  They do not use them off the bounce either to take advantage of its quickness.  Will this become evident years later as their power like Chen Qi's wont last?
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spitfire View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 8:36pm

Kenda is more of a BLocker/Hitter Close to the table. He rarely back up unless being forced away from the table. I don't think he loop that much.

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S.O.M. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 10:47pm
That still doesn't explain Ovtcharov.  I've got a guess, maybe, Ovtcharov plays with a tight grip, through which, that distance is fine for reaching maximum velocity.  IMO, keeping hands relaxed, tightning grip on impact results in slowing of the speed equally as if the hand would have been tight throughout...so he is just from a different school of thought who believes more power comes from keeping the grip tight so the direction of the momentum is focused.  In terms of speed, I know loose grip is better, but in terms of power(meaning right combination which produces balls with greater pressure), I think tight might be better. 
 
What is your take on this?
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Anton Chigurh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 10:52pm
Hmmm... S.O.M. = Sid Of Millenium...?

Perhaps. Maybe. Could it be? The style is certainly similar. We must wait and see if he speed glues his body...


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sallom89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh

Hmmm... S.O.M. = Sid Of Millenium...?Perhaps. Maybe. Could it be? The style is certainly similar. We must wait and see if he speed glues his body...


lol @ speed gluing his body!!!
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S.O.M. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 11:11pm
Who is Sidofmillenium?  Was he banned?  I searched around early posts, his name wasn't crossed-off though....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by S.O.M.

Who is Sidofmillenium?  Was he banned?  I searched around early posts, his name wasn't crossed-off though....


I don't know, was he?
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Jonan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/05/2010 at 11:20pm
Dima uses his shoulder in his swing, Chinese players swing their whole arm, he doesnt extend his elbow, but he extends the length that is put into the swing by moving his shoulder with his swings.

Kenta isnt meant to be powerful, he's small and quick with great block, good spin manipulation, and a good backhand attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ppmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 2:38am
Originally posted by Anton Chigurh

Hmmm... S.O.M. = Sid Of Millenium...?

Perhaps. Maybe. Could it be? The style is certainly similar. We must wait and see if he speed glues his body...




Go ahead and ban S.O.M. You're a mod now.
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Jonan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 2:40am
Originally posted by ppmax


Originally posted by Anton Chigurh

Hmmm... S.O.M. = Sid Of Millenium...?Perhaps. Maybe. Could it be? The style is certainly similar. We must wait and see if he speed glues his body...
Go ahead and ban S.O.M. You're a mod now.


Assistant mod, not all levels of mods can ban. Besides, you cant just ban people because you think they have similar names to people from the past.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ppmax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 3:15am
Originally posted by Jonan

Originally posted by ppmax


Originally posted by Anton Chigurh

Hmmm... S.O.M. = Sid Of Millenium...?Perhaps. Maybe. Could it be? The style is certainly similar. We must wait and see if he speed glues his body...
Go ahead and ban S.O.M. You're a mod now.


Assistant mod, not all levels of mods can ban. Besides, you cant just ban people because you think they have similar names to people from the past.


You misunderstood me. That was my way of voicing a protest.

I have a problem with a moderator who singles out a new member because the guy has a similar style to a banned member he hated in the past.

From my point of view, a moderator needs to welcome everyone. He can't have a prejudice against anyone because he/she resembles someone he hated in the past.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 3:38am
Kenta does do anything.  He just blocks...

As for this S.O.M. person, it can be Sid.  The excuse of searching around the forum and finding out about him is a bit suspicious.  The OP is supposed to be a new member after all.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 3:50am
kenta and ovcha use different equipment compared to the chinese. everyone has different styles, the trick is to find out which style fits you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Imago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 4:00am
There are at least two assumptions that seem to be kind of synthetic a priori statements:
 
Originally posted by S.O.M.

Neither of their strokes have enough distance to gain maximum velocity nor enough radius to produce power.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 6:55am
Originally posted by ohhgourami

Kenta does do anything.  He just blocks...

As for this S.O.M. person, it can be Sid.  The excuse of searching around the forum and finding out about him is a bit suspicious.  The OP is supposed to be a new member after all.  Wink
I totally agree. Regardless, let's just act like we don't know and welcome our new friend.
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Jonan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 7:02am
I don't really get this topic...I don't see Chen Qi or Dima as lacking power in the first place, with Dima it's just not the Euro style to try to go for 3rd ball attacks or all or nothing kill shots. Chinese hit harder because that's their strategy, it's an effective one of course, but still Euro is based more around rallies than 3rd ball kills. Still though, I don't see Dima as lacking power at all.

Think about this when considering extension. How does a baseball player throw the ball? With a fully outstretched arm? Or with a arm with a bent elbow that snaps out at the end, using the shoulder heavily as well? You CAN generate plenty of speed and power without using the Chinese stroke which has been optimized for Chinese rubbers on the forehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 8:34am
Hi Sid. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Quote bull_harrier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 9:59am
Originally posted by Jonan

I don't really get this topic...I don't see Chen Qi or Dima as lacking power in the first place, with Dima it's just not the Euro style to try to go for 3rd ball attacks or all or nothing kill shots. Chinese hit harder because that's their strategy, it's an effective one of course, but still Euro is based more around rallies than 3rd ball kills. Still though, I don't see Dima as lacking power at all.

Think about this when considering extension. How does a baseball player throw the ball? With a fully outstretched arm? Or with a arm with a bent elbow that snaps out at the end, using the shoulder heavily as well? You CAN generate plenty of speed and power without using the Chinese stroke which has been optimized for Chinese rubbers on the forehand.


Not getting a topic was how sid operated, he would start a fire by posting insane and non factual information and then just sit back and let everyone else throw gasoline on.  The resemblance is quite similar so we will see
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by bull_harrier

Originally posted by Jonan

I don't really get this topic...I don't see Chen Qi or Dima as lacking power in the first place, with Dima it's just not the Euro style to try to go for 3rd ball attacks or all or nothing kill shots. Chinese hit harder because that's their strategy, it's an effective one of course, but still Euro is based more around rallies than 3rd ball kills. Still though, I don't see Dima as lacking power at all.

Think about this when considering extension. How does a baseball player throw the ball? With a fully outstretched arm? Or with a arm with a bent elbow that snaps out at the end, using the shoulder heavily as well? You CAN generate plenty of speed and power without using the Chinese stroke which has been optimized for Chinese rubbers on the forehand.


Not getting a topic was how sid operated, he would start a fire by posting insane and non factual information and then just sit back and let everyone else throw gasoline on.  The resemblance is quite similar so we will see
 
What are you talking about?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 2:00pm

Jonan, if you look at the fastest baseball pitchers, their arm starts out straight, then folds to use their elbow and wrist.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by S.O.M.

Jonan, if you look at the fastest baseball pitchers, their arm starts out straight, then folds to use their elbow and wrist.

we are not playing baseball are we?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 2:20pm
It was about the concept.  Others do not agree with the basic assumptions I've made, I just tried to give us some foundations to start the discussion at, I guess one thing we can all agree is that their strokes are different than what we are used to seeing, is that an innovation?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 2:52pm
LOL som is back !!!
anyways.. there is a way to look up sids ip (mac) address and soms ip (mac) address on this forum...
this kid does sound like sid lolz...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote dauntless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 8:50pm
It is kind of obvious.

S.O.M. Could you tell us what your "name" means.

I am just letting the mods know I can't take another round of Sid's posts. That idiot almost turned me away from this forum forever. He wouldn't last a day at OOAK with the kind of crap he posted. And if he is back with more of this BS, and he isn't booted/banned...I am leaving for good. You can delete my account.
Cheerio.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jonan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by S.O.M.

Jonan, if you look at the fastest baseball pitchers, their arm starts out straight, then folds to use their elbow and wrist.



I was a pitcher in highschool, got scholarships to play college ball, I know about pitching. You don't have to start with your arm straight, that's mainly to hide the ball so you don't tip your pitch. It's all beside the point though, none of the real acceleration happens at that point, it happens when the arm is bent, and that is relevant because it's physics and the human arm, those are both constants between the two sports.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/06/2010 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by dauntless

It is kind of obvious.

S.O.M. Could you tell us what your "name" means.

I am just letting the mods know I can't take another round of Sid's posts. That idiot almost turned me away from this forum forever. He wouldn't last a day at OOAK with the kind of crap he posted. And if he is back with more of this BS, and he isn't booted/banned...I am leaving for good. You can delete my account.
Cheerio.Confused


I hear you, Dauntless, and it would be a shame if you left. You are one of the better posters on MYTT, IMHO. I'm trying to figure stuff out, but I'm only an assistant mod so please have patience. Smile (Also, please have confidence that the situation will be sorted out. Flu season comes around every year, but it only lasts a short while. Wink)


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Post Options Post Options   Quote dauntless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2010 at 10:32pm
Well, it wasn't a threat to anyone, because really .... who would care. It isn't that-- I just won't tolerate another round of that sh!t.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/07/2010 at 11:05pm
I can't imagine two players more different than Dima and Kenta and as of a few days ago, at the CNT trial match that I saw, Chen Qi had lots of power on his forehand.  This entire premise of this thread is pointless.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Anton Chigurh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2010 at 1:10am
Originally posted by Baal

I can't imagine two players more different than Dima and Kenta and as of a few days ago, at the CNT trial match that I saw, Chen Qi had lots of power on his forehand.  This entire premise of this thread is pointless.




I definitely understand your sentiment, and for the most part I absolutely agree. However, I believe there is a point to this thread--just not one that is immediately clear to everyone except those who are familiar with Sid Of Millennium... Oops... I mean, S.O.M.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote S.O.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/08/2010 at 1:28am
They loop in the same compact style like Kreanga's forwardspin backhand kill.  The popular way to loop is to make your body go down then up.  But, they rotate their wrist either backward or upward.  I am trying to figure out which is better.
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