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BBC Reviews: 9-10-9 blade |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I suspect that with all Hinoki blades like this one or DS 90 it is hard to quantify their class as to ALL+ or OFF etc, because they have more than one gear and therefore behave differently in different situations. Like, when you play gentle short touch or quick over-the-table block then the blade hots like ALL+, but when you loop or do medium-power flat hit and such, then it is definitely at least OFF- or OFF for power-loops. Basically, when carbon layers come into play (meaning you start to hit fast and strong) then its classification jumps one or two degrees up. Soft and thick outer layers on the other hand guarantee that carbon is not interfering with the short game below certain power level of your strokes - hence ALL+ for that aspect of the game. And so on... |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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BladesByCharlie
Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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hi jcdi. the 9-10-9 that you got is from the same stick of wood that mine is. i do consider it special, but am selling all 9-10-9s from the same wood until it runs out. i am in constant search for equal weight/density wood. it does seem to have special "properties" in that the blade has the touch of an "all", but hits like an "off". different rubbers tweak it some. initially i was going to kill the line because i thought it was too slow, only an "all". but found that it hits very well with my b/h medium pips, the best i've ever used.
so...the basic blank for now, is special for everyone. the shape changes it's characteristics (larger being slightly slower). i tried all shapes personally and chose the Attack II as having the "right" feel for my touch and timing sense. in your case getting close to the right handle was special and i am willing to deliver that to anyone. even the weight of the handle can be adjusted to get balance right. i've tried thousands of wood/carbon/glue combinations and will try more, but i am happy with the serendipitous finding of the 9-10-9. i am working on different combinations of thicknesses in this config, like 8-9-8, 7-8-7, not for me, i've found "home", but for other's preferences. thanks for the new French idiom, "hand sewn", right? charlie |
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Charlie Smith, owner
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com BBC 9-10-9, Donic Barracuda, RITC 563 1.5 |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Charlie, did you ever make a non-symmetric blade which has different thickness (wood) on FH vs BH?
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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Jolan
Gold Member Joined: 01/14/2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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I'm definetely a lucky b........d ! My blade is the sister blade of yours...Replace blade by wand and you can write a new chapter of Harry Potter...!
Next time I'll play it I'll say to my opponent : "Beware young padawan (yes I know, I'm mixing HP and Star wars, who cares ?), My blade has been made in the same stick of wood as the master's blade. Prepare yourself to be highly punished for threatening me with your disgraceful item. Such impudence deserves equal hardness ! "
Now you are scaring me ! Shall I lock it in a safe ? Are you still OK for selling it to me or shall I wait for a courteous visit from the Sopranos asking me to give it back...?
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Joola Wyzaryz Freeze
Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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I have one from Charlie! the FH is faster (thicker) than the BH.
Great for my med pips play. My next request for Charlie will be to clone the V-6 blade (lighter version). Thanks to him, I'll stop buying the Butterfly blades.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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nathanso
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2008 Location: RedwoodCity, CA Status: Offline Points: 431 |
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Palio Macro ERA 42.5* max worked well on my 9-10-9.
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BBC, SP, LP
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BladesByCharlie
Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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hi jcdi, can you guess where from--"he tasks me!"
it's quite still ok for you to keep the SUPERBLADE. and may the force be with you! p.s. do the Sapranos know where France is? charlie |
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Charlie Smith, owner
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com BBC 9-10-9, Donic Barracuda, RITC 563 1.5 |
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kelvinyoong
Silver Member Joined: 10/23/2008 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 771 |
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slightly off topic...
Do all the BBC blades come sealed? |
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Andrzej Grubba AN
Sriver 2.1 Sriver 1.9 |
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BladesByCharlie
Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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JimT, yes and i still do. obviously the site still needs to be fleshed out. lots of missing data not added yet.
BeerBelly in Austrailia got an o/s 2-speed Carbo-flex with mahogany outers. so technically it is a 7 ply blade, but the plys are definitely not the same thickness. just for a second i thought of a 7-10-9 or other permutations(many). but realized that dissimilar thicknesses of the same wood on the outer layer will eventually warp. i'm sure that the micro-carbon would not be sufficient to prevent it for more than a year(even well sealed). the Tri-flex carbon is also made as a 2-speed, is faster than a skinny Tri, but not as fast as the fatty Tri (which is "goofy" fast). pictures on the site soon. after years of exhaustive research i decided that carbon stretches more than it compresses. so...in the Tri 2-speed, 2 of the carbons are closer on one side than the other. on that blade i use 1/16" balsa-3/32" balsa to offset the center carbon. the skinny side flexes slightly more than the fat side, thus my suggestion is "fat on the b/h". i think the f/h needs more dwell/carry time than the b/h. the fatter side gets rid of the ball faster. in BeerBelly's case, as well as others, i suggest this but also ask them to "try" it the other way also. some like it fat on f/h, depending on rubbers used and preference. Carbo-flex and Tri-flex composition prevents warping(never seen one in 35 years). p.s. BeerBelly's blade has hide glue under the mahogany layers to improve touch for chopping 'til they drop. more later, charlie |
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Charlie Smith, owner
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com BBC 9-10-9, Donic Barracuda, RITC 563 1.5 |
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BladesByCharlie
Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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hi kelvin, yes all the blades i've made for the 35 years have been sealed. i consider a delammed or a splintering surface to be criminal. but the sealer has to penetrate and not sit on top of the wood.
more later, charlie |
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Charlie Smith, owner
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com BBC 9-10-9, Donic Barracuda, RITC 563 1.5 |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Hi Charlie,
Can you tell me off the top of your head if your Carboflex Alpha is based on the Sitco design?
Also do you have anything (prototype or otherwise) that is similar to Darker's old Center Carbon design?
Blade manufacturers seemed to have abandoned single carbon plies in recent years; I'd be interested to hear your feedback why 2 ply carbons have been the most prevalent.
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BladesByCharlie
Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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hi icontek. i was Asti blades, designed blades before Asti. the C-flex is mine.
i not aware of any center carbon blades by others. i'll look into the old Darker design you mentioned i am curious. the fibers on the flex series doesn't run north to south like all other blades. it runs "criss-cross", at 45 degree angle to north-south. when i used single ply carbon n-s it caused the blade to be too springy, the blade flex and came back too fast, launching the ball faster than any rubber wanted. no compatability. the criss-cross design was intended to make a bigger sweet spot, stabilize the blade without making it stiff. i've made single carbon blades off center to make a 2-speed effect. oddly enough the side with the carbon flexed more. looked into it with experts and found that carbon stretches more than it compresses. not what i expected. the two carbons work with each other to stiffen, lessening flex, but lightening the overall weight of the blade. the further apart the carbons, the stiffer the blade. lately i have access to a lighter "micro-carbon" that weighs less, lets more of the wood touch to occur. heavier carbon just isn't practical for the weight limitations, especially around Tenergy or H3. thanks for the question, i'll think about it more, charlie |
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Charlie Smith, owner
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com BBC 9-10-9, Donic Barracuda, RITC 563 1.5 |
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nomadpat
Member Joined: 10/28/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5 |
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Did you happen to try the 47.5* degree on the 9-10-9 as well? |
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nathanso
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2008 Location: RedwoodCity, CA Status: Offline Points: 431 |
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BBC, SP, LP
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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charlie, thank you for your response.
i didn't realize the asti/sitco connection! i briefly hit with a friends carboflex last year and thought "wow, nice balance of control and power".
the darker design of their center carbon is an enigma to me. on the occasions that i borrowed one for a few games one, the solidness feel and speed remind me of a clipper. it produces a lot of quickness from light contact and has some gears. it has a wonderful pitch and balance with a head size that reminds me of the samsonov alpha (though not quite as small). but there is definitely a "disconnect" between the carbon and the outer woods on big drives (too much whip effect?) and the blade is capable of producing balls that have too much speed for the amount of topspin.
being darker, i wonder if it's not a hinoki based design.
i'm really tempted to purchase one of your artfully designed blades and i keep coming back to a center carbon idea. if i could take the best things about the darker (balance, solid feel, most comfortable FL handle i have ever used) and the asti (control, spin, and more control) i think i would have quite an evil birthday present for myself!
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Played quite a lot with 9-10-9.
First of all, it really plays great with Tenergy and SP - exactly as promised on the website. I however disliked how Tenergy reacted to the incoming spin, and the SP (RITC 802) while great in many respects cannot really do a good BH loop or flip, so I decided to put them off till I grow really old and feeble. Then I decided to give two Outlaws 2.2 a try again. And oh! miracle... after playing with that combo for 30 mins I realized that it was quite a good one, a bit more aggressive than Nexy Color with Outlaws but still quite controllable and exactly what I need. So now I have two setups of almost the same nature (with Outlaws and Hinoki layers, that is). So then I played entire practice with 9-10-9 and Outlaws and "he saw it was good" (c). Soft fast blade with hard rubbers = great combo for my style. Thanks, Charlie! |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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Jolan
Gold Member Joined: 01/14/2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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Outlaws...? Thank you, it might be an option. I am still searching the perfect match with this blade (remember ? I'm a "perfect match" searcher....). I've tried Tenergy 64/05 = trow angle way too high. Baracuda = Even worst (sorry Charlie, we disagree on that one) , too slow, too high. (off topic : Baracuda on Mazunov is fantastic...)
Xtend hs max is the best bet I've reached so far. It's low throw and fast enough, but I'm still lacking a bit of "tenergylike" power, seewhatImean ?
In short, I want something like tenergy 64 but with a very low throw. Does that exist ? Would Outlaws be the way to go ?
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Joola Wyzaryz Freeze
Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
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BladesByCharlie
Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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hi jcdi, i've been thinking how could i have been so wrong? i still play with
Baracuda, even went from 2.0 to max and play well with it. i can stay with the Tenergy users and the sales hype on it about durability and accuracy is still incredulating to me! i played with Gambler's Outlaw 2 years ago and loved it.. the juniors at the club all used it until splitting, delam and broken pips started on the players who trained alot. make sure you get the upgraded newer version (added a taste of synthetic rubber (i hear). i still have players who are economizing buy the Outlaw, but i love my Baracuda. i may have figured out our lack of concord. i play with 1.5 563 on my b/h and the weight for all is 153 grams. the 9-10-9 is faster with more weight. i just didn't tell you, sorry! a friend borrowed my backup blade to see what the 9-10-9 is all about for himself and put Donic Coppa Platin on both sides, then beat everyone there. he thought it was special that he could play so well without having to get used to it. i have been testing an 8-9-8, to see if it plays better with both sides inverted and heavy like Tenergy. we'll see, thanks, charlie |
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Charlie Smith, owner
http://www.bladesbycharlie.com BBC 9-10-9, Donic Barracuda, RITC 563 1.5 |
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Jolan
Gold Member Joined: 01/14/2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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Dear Charlie,
by no means I'm saying you were wrong and I am right ! I am just saying that, according to my taste and habbit, baracuda doesn't fit my bill with 9-10-9. It's just a matter of personal preferences, you see...
I find your blade beautiful and fantastic but it's providing a high arc , which is more than OK to me provided I can find a low throw rubber. I find baracuda to be also high throw and also a bit too slow for my offensiv game. So high throw blade + high throw rubber = balls out.
Xtend hs is OK. Low throw and fast enough. Thing is that it's light ! Yeah, I know, everybody is looking for lightness these days, but my all setup is now under 170gr (168 to be precise...). I miss some power. With tenergy or baracuda, your blade feels wonderfully balanced at 178gr.
So either I'm adding some edge tape or I'm finding heavier tensors.
I've got a pair of Joola express one waiting around that I should try too on that blade. Should be OK. I'll keep you posted.
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Joola Wyzaryz Freeze
Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Yes, I think you should give them a try - they are definitely lower throw than Tenergy, faster on drives and blocks, no noticeable catapult effect (not sure if you want that or not). Less spin but that's fine in my book as they react to the incoming spin much less that Tenergy. The only problem for me is fragility but I am told they have made it better with the latest "3rd" generation. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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Jolan
Gold Member Joined: 01/14/2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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@JimT : Thank you for the tip. Outlaw works much better on 9-10-9 than anything else I've tried so far. It's low throw, fast without being a speed demon though. I like the "crispy feel" it provides and my wallet likes the price. I took it in 2.2mm and it does the match perfectly. Closed case !
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Joola Wyzaryz Freeze
Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Glad you liked it. I kept it on BH there, but replaced FH rubber with LKT Rapid Speed 2.2 - for better control over table and extra spin. It's a tad slower but hits good still... Also (about the wallet) try using Palio Macro Era 47.5 instead of Tenergy. I played with both and PME is better almost in every aspect (price included), but mostly for me the important thing is that PME is way less sensitive to the incoming spin than Tenergy. Read my review about PME and comparison to T-05 and T-64 which I just posted today. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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despoticwalnut
Super Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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I bought a 9-10-9 off a tester from this site and received it this Monday. It certainly is much thicker and more solid than any other blades I've tried, but I love it. At first I was doing great, although that was probably the honeymoon phase. I soon had trouble controlling it with IQUL 35 2.2 on it so I tried my renanos bright hard and found it much easier, most likely due to the more predictable nature of the harder sponge. I'm picking up a couple chinese rubbers a friend sent me from the post office tomorrow to try out and see if I like them. It could just be that I prefer harder sponge than the 35, but at the moment I don't have the resources to find out yet, but soon I'll get it.
As an amateur review of this blade, it is very excellent and I don't think I'll be needing to try any other blades anytime soon. The rest has been covered more thoroughly and with more experience by previous posters. |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Saw you selling the blade. Turned out a bit too fast for you, maybe? Korbel with Srivers sounds like a slightly slower and controlled combo, but you could put some controlling rubbers on 9-10-9 and use it that way. One thing that sometimes makes me play Nexy Color instead of 9-10-9 is that NC is a bit more flexible and "hugs" the ball more. So for the players who prefer a flatter game with blocking and hitting and very nice short game control, 9-10-9 is just the ticket. I loved it with short pips on BH. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please... |
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despoticwalnut
Super Member Joined: 02/17/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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Yeah, and the feel was just not quite for me. It's a very nice blade, but I need something with more flex to loop with at my level.
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Just wanted to state that I am the proud owner of this very blade reviewed by JimT a little over 2 years ago. Furthermore, it is the greatest blade of all time. . I personally refer to it as, "The blade of blades." Strangely, last night I weighed it, and it came in at 87.4 grams.... ... maybe it's burned off some calories since it was created? As you may have noticed in other threads, I like this blade so much, I'm having Charlie make a duplicate |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Humidity changes and with it the weight can jump 1 g up and down easily - so mine was 89, your 87 - the "real" weight is probably 88 then |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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Carryboy
Silver Member Joined: 05/12/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 723 |
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Can I make you an offer on that 9-10-9 please!!!!!!! Better still name your price!!! Really a nice blade
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Spin Master Carbo Power (Stefan Elsner Custom)
Donic Acuda S1 Max Donic Acuda P1 Blue Max |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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my friend, usually when it comes to blades, money talks.... but not this time
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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Franq
Member Joined: 03/16/2012 Location: Kuwait Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Ugh!!
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"ugh!"
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