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Innerforce ZLC Review - Updated after 20 Sessions |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Posted: 04/27/2010 at 3:42am |
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yeah i got the Innerforce ZLC today, played with with it.
Set-up Innerforce ZLC FH: New Tenergy 05 BH: New Xiom Vega Europe I will use this post to patiently and responsibly describe the blade (rather setup), as it grows on me. First day is very deceptive... i can only talk about a few striking things. Luckily 2 of my club-mates bought a ZLF and ALC also. So i can prolly compare these 3 blades. For day 1: Zhang Yining betrayed me. I never thought Pros use fast blades like this. This is definitely faster than i expected. Yes it is very controlled for its speed...but quite fast. Short game is not that great for day one... one reason could be timing. The major difference in newer butterfly fast blades from older fast blades is thickness. Timo Boll ZLC and Innerforce ZLC are barely 5.6-5.8mm, compared to older fast blades like schlagers or amultarts or even mizutanis, all of which are 7mm. Which means their flex is different... and good chance of error for someone using thicker blades earlier. That's me. While Tenergy on FH felt like i can't miss a ball... on BH the new xiom Vega Europe prolly needs to be broken in or broken down. Because the fresh out of packet speed of this ESN rubber coupled with speed bounciness of ZLC makes it very difficult to block loops. On FH Tenergy 05 gained some speed, which it badly needed, and the trajectory flattened out a bit... towards T64, allowing me more flat contact (than grazing) with racket and hence more confidence. It doesn't have the feel of Photino... good or bad, photino feel is there in the Innerforce ZLF which i borrowed from my club mate and played. And he didn't like ZLC when he played with it. He was looking for that softish feel... while i went for ZLC and not ZLF for the harder ball contact = feedback. At 86 grams, i cant called ZLC heavy. So the balance was perfect and hands didn't tire after 3 hours. Will update this post when i play again with this set-up. Day 3 Update: After todays session in club... i think i will have to put some serious consideration to my initial impression. Today i beat one 1900 level guy, whom i had never beaten ever. But what's surprising is it's 3-0 win.. and this guy was not out of form or testing new set-up or anything like that. On the first match of the day an 1800 guy beat me...only to be beaten back on next match.. and finally beating me again on 5th game 9-11. My BH seems to be the game changer now. the openings are so good that it is getting me into complete control of the point... whether serve return or opening loop/flick. Thanks to the short game flex. Also i am making lesser mistakes... and picking up balls which earlier i wouldn't have tried. Control on serves is much better now (i was having major problem initially). But best is i think out of position shot like when the ball is next to your chest or way out on your BH side. with short movement i could generate decent speed and still control. Something surely is working.... i was kinda disappointed on day 1... because this blade being quite different from my earlier blades, i couldn't adjust to the game well. Let's see how it goes. Day 20+ After about 20 more days of play with Innerforce ZLC, this is the most awesome thing that happened in my 22 years of table tennis carrier of which about 5 years EJing. With every passing day i discover some new strength and new capability. i still had equipment malfunction in a recent tourney, but that is completely due to my ex-BH rubber Xiom Vega europe, which behaved erratically after being spinmaxed. the blade still helped to at least beat a 1749 rated guy in spite of that problem. Contrary to my original belief that pricey blades are just equivalent to non-pricey blades from galaxy or 729 or yasaka; this blade is expensive and still worth it. It no longer feels fast.. the touch game over the table is great now, you can place the ball where you want to. [B}and Smashing is soo easy even for low balls which i used to loop and loop and loop earlier. Here's an example... i read Long Pip pretty well. So earlier i used to loop LP returns remembering what spin i had given in previous shot. but yesterday while playing an LP i intentionally kept my mind blank... didn't recall original spin on the ball.. and just smashed. to my pleasant surprise whether its an under spin or topspin; i could smash with surprising ease and accuracy. Coaches here always told to refrain from trying to finish the ball early, but to be in the game and to wait for right opportunity. I couldnt ever do that, not because i didn't want to; but with the stiff paddles like amultart or even photino; i was afraid that if i don't finish early; i will miss the ball while in the rally or against opponent's aggressive stroke ahead of me. With innerforce ZLC, (and tenergies) i am not afraid of a hard loop/drive or smash coming in odd spot, while i am still close to table... because it blocks with amazing control. Now that confidence is now helping me to open up slowly at times, instead of going for the big shot on first or second stroke. Defense is helping me being "patiently offensive". I played briefly with ZLF and ALC also, and after ZLC i didn't like any of them beyond a few close-to table shots. it's like i gain 5% in close to table, but lose out 30% in mid distance or overall passing power. [ZLF has a slightly vague ball feedback, while ALC has a crisp feedback, on faster loops it doesn't retain directional accuracy.> That brings me to another good point. Sudden acceleration of the game. Innerforce ZLC really helps in those 'over the table' slaps you see in big ticket games; where there is virtually no swing and at the last moment a spurt of energy with great power. Yesterday someone mentioned that i have a great short slap stroke and difficult to read the speed. this is awesome..!!! i am flattered, because all these days i heard i have a big swing game in FH, and once i swing big (close to table), a returning fast block from opponent makes me vulnerable. What is so special about Innerforce ZLC structurally? this is how i explain from a material science engineer's perspective: 5 elements: - the thin crossection: allows the blade to flex in slow shots like much much slower blades. - the closer zylon carbon layers,as they are pushed deeper due to 2 surface wood layers : helps in the flex till the shear strain reaches a level where the zylon fibres are stretched and starts giving resistance - the high tensile strength of zylon: now when it is stretched it becomes stiff as the zylon fibres refuse to strain more, thanks to high youngs modulus. So in power shots the blade stiffens up and allows impressive power delivery. this is where the other flexy blades give out.. and end up flexing more sacrificing velocity and rebound direction. - the 2 surface wood layers on top: in slower shots it muffles the carbon feel with wood feel, and allows some surface deformation (like extreme example would be balsa blades) - the good feedback of carbon:at high speed loops drives etc.. i kinda like the hard feel of carbon at it gives good feedback of the moment ball strikes, than soft feel of zylon. ZLC definitely retains that feel compared to ZLF. what remains unexplained to me is however why 2 surface wood layers and not 1 thicker wood layer. Hope i will figure out some day. Nevrtheless: a very good blade from butterfly... good that after constant focus on space age materials... there is finally some focus in blade construction, which made that exotic fiber properties actually useful; than just stuffing zylon. |
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ejmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 08/09/2009 Location: madrid Status: Offline Points: 2609 |
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i agree with your review.
i do not like very much that composite thin fast blades 5,6 - 5,8 mm. and from those zlc, zlf, alc innerforce or stratus cb. maybe the stratus cb the best for me.
i rather like the classics, viscaria, tb alc, tbs, mm. and i also like photino, or sc.
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EJ Club.
MM T05(fh)/Srvfx(bh); InfVps,LSW,Viscaria,RwV,TBAlc,PG7,yextsc,yeo. EJmaster wood. |
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typhoon1
Member Joined: 08/20/2009 Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Hi debra,
I think that the thickness of MM is 5.7,unlike Amultart or SC that thickness is about 7.0. http://www.iruiru.com/goods_page.php?ct=B&mk=A&pg=1 I have Innerforce ZLC too. In my opinion, this blade is one of the best blades of butterfly products. In contrast, I agree with you that TBS is better than Innerforce ZLC for playing only short game and playing on the table. Could you please give me some comparison between Innerforce ZLC and ALC? |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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�
you are right. that's why i specified 'fast' blades. like schlager, Amultart, Sardius. MM is at best mid fast.
�
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bumpernets19
Silver Member Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 760 |
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played hexer + today...I think you will be disappointed yet with the blocking problem, but I am going to do a video review asap.
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Rating: 1232
Xiom Zetro Quad Hurricane 3 FH Hexer + BH |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Day 3 updated in blue
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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review added to the first post in diff color.
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big d
Super Member Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: Nj, usa Status: Offline Points: 493 |
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damn good review clapping
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petr korbel
fh t05 bh nexy karis m |
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dauntless
Gold Member Joined: 10/06/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1471 |
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I am still struggling a bit with the huge speed/spin increase with this blade and Tenergy. I can feel the potential but I personally need more time to adjust. I have never played with Tenergy before and I know it is the rubber, not the blade. Why? I played with IF ZLC with regular Sriver 1.9 (also 2.1 briefly )and the blade is remarkable. Like an all wood blade on slow strokes, touch shots, especially over the table, but from mid to even way back, plenty of power for such a thin blade. Flex was not too much. I love this blade, but it is frustrating to have to get used to SO much (Tenergy, IF ZLC, Roundell). I have gone back to other setups and immediately all my control is back, unbelievable touch and confidence... but not nearly as much finishing/point controlling power. I need to give the setup some time to settle on me and I need to NOT play matches for a while and just do drills and practice.
The blade is perfect in every way for my except even after sanding the wings (way too far down for me) and even the handle, I am still not in love with the FL handle but I think I have it finally have it at a place where I will adjust and it will just "disappear". This is normal since I was very used to Yasaka FL handles... Yasaka more tapered towards head, less boxy towards neck, less wing going down the handle. Sanding is easy though, at least not too small! Thanks to Debraj (and to the guy in my club who exposed this to me) for the info. on Innerforce ZLC. Iruiru got me one at 88g. Yes it is expensive, for me, it I have lost all desire to EJ on another blade. I may try a few other rubbers out(like EL, JO Waldner, and maybe Mark V), but I am satisfied with this blade. |
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1. BTY Primorac, Nittaku H3N, T64 2. BTY Primorac, H3N, Mendo MP Feedback
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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guys thanks for your feedbacks :)
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bakethecake
Member Joined: 11/12/2010 Location: Luton, UK Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Only just come across this and have to say it's a fantastic review and exactly what i was looking for
I love the way you updated it periodically to give the fuller picture and it panned out just how i thought!! Thankyou very much :) (Apologies for bumping an old thread back to life) |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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thanks bakethecake.
however just so you know i'm not playing with innerforce ZLC right now. i am playing with YinHe v1 which is slower than ZLC and even less stiff. not really because of innerforce zlc had anything wrong, but i can't handle it in stressed tourney situation. the best player in our club 2200+ rated jz is using this blade with H3neo FH and bryce speed BH. at his level he does awesome things with this blade ... he actually just bought another innerforce ZLC.
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Pioneer
Silver Member Joined: 06/03/2010 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 866 |
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I have an issue about the feel of this blade which is: if you go to www.butterflyonline.com, it says the feel is: Hard ... but if you download 2010BTYCatalog ( page:11) you will find that it's feel is: Medium ? why this discrepancy for ?
Edited by Pioneer - 11/16/2010 at 9:45pm |
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EZRO
Silver Member Joined: 10/18/2010 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 500 |
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in general ZLC is a hard blade with a soft touch, so in general the ratings of butterfly is not really 100% because the blade surface really differs when it reaches to a certain location condition and the type of rubber that has been use. I have tried ZLC JM, and it really feels different when I'm using T05 and T64 and also its really different when I'm using baracuda and Coppa Silver. Medium feeling when I'm using T64 but with the 05 its a harder feeling, Noted that I'm from a tropical country and the temperature is very humid to hot. Butterfly rate it in the level of a hard feel because of the added Carbon ply.
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Blade: Butterfly Photino and Keyshot light
FH: DONIC Baracuda / Tenergy 64 and 05 BH: 802-40/1 and Raystorm DONIC BURN ALL+ FH Kokutaku 868 tacky BH Kokutaku 110 Medium Pip |
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cls2222
Silver Member Joined: 10/23/2010 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 646 |
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I hope Galaxy makes a copy of this blade
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bakethecake
Member Joined: 11/12/2010 Location: Luton, UK Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Yeh, thanks mate! I did notice from your sig you'd since updated and hadn't actually thought anything negative of that ;) Thanks again |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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gotta try one.
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Antiq
Silver Member Joined: 06/30/2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 732 |
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My custom made zlc from Sword.. can't compare to the Innerforce ZLC as I don't own one as I felt that it is overly priced..
So far I've put T05 and Gambler Shadow for SH (main weapon, 84gram without rubbers) and LKT BP for CPen (84gram withour rubber).. In general, loop away from table and blocks for power loop near table is easy.
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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i am planning to sell my ZLC ... if anyone is interested. PM me.
i will put up some photos in the buy and sell section.
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cls2222
Silver Member Joined: 10/23/2010 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 646 |
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The pictures of the inner fibers in the ZLC look exactly like the ones in the Galaxy T-8.
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spidey
Super Member Joined: 12/04/2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 275 |
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it might interest me if the price is right. ST or FL?
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Pioneer
Silver Member Joined: 06/03/2010 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 866 |
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Why you want to sell it after that marvelous review ?
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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see my reason above .... i am moving to slower blades to compensate for my level,,, (and also a knee issue)...
Edited by debraj - 11/18/2010 at 10:42pm |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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is ifzlc better than tb zlc ?
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
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The IF ZLF have more control and feel than the TB ZLC.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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LOOPMEISTER
Platinum Member Joined: 11/13/2008 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 2486 |
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Yes, unless you like ST handles. Timo Boll series straight handles are good. Innerforce ST handles (on the oversizeds blades) are crappy. |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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huh? the handle matters that much?
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
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I prefer the IF ZLF ST over the TB ZLF/C ST. I use TournaGrip on the IF ZLF ST and its perfect.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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johnny89atc
Gold Member Joined: 06/28/2008 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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for some people yes... |
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Blade: OSP Virtuoso-L RST 87gr
FH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 FX 2.1 BH: Butterfly Tenergy 05 1.9 |
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tsanyc
Platinum Member Joined: 05/23/2006 Location: Mt. Hinoki Status: Offline Points: 2367 |
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what is a TournaGrip?
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