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Review:"NEW better" 729 F1 - Powerlooper's Dream |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Posted: 01/16/2011 at 10:16pm |
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<p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Blade: 729 F-1 <o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">Composition: Koto-Limba-3k carbon-Kiri(Paulownia)-3k Carbon-Limba-Koto <p ="msonormal"="">Handle- FL <p ="msonormal"="">Thickness: 5.9mm <p ="msonormal"="">Speed rating: OFF++/OFF+ <p ="msonormal"="">Actual rating: OFF/ higher OFF- <p ="msonormal"="">Weight: 83 gm <p ="msonormal"="">Price: $19 (eacheng) <p ="msonormal"="">Played with rubbers: <p ="msonormal"="">FH: Acuda S1 / H3NEO (PO tuned), BH: Palio Thor’s <p ="msonormal"="">Reference blades for comparison: TBS, TB ALC, MJ, Amultart, YinHe V1, Wavestone, Photino, etc. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Structure: <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>It has a decent finish, not excessive overkill like butterfly photino handle, probably even a little lower than recent Yinhe blade finish. I think 729 intentionally keeps the neck a little wide, the logic being it can be shaved to make it narrow but not otherwise. I’m neutral about that. The top koto layer has a very unique grain structure, little rough… and has small rounded grains. It is very hard. When I compared tried digging my nail in it, unlike hinoki, unlike even limba, it didn’t yield <p ="msonormal"=""><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>These days while choosing blade I pay much more attention to the structure than whether it is carbon zylon nylon arylate aramid or plutonium, unlike I did 4 years back. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I pay more importance to the wood types, total thickness, and effective thickness (which is distance between the composite layers). And with these parameters I can assume blade properties much better than knowing composite structure. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">How the structure relates to properties for 729 F-1. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span><o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Core wood and thickness:<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">My understanding on how core affects the properties: <p ="msonormal"="">Thin Ayous core = very flexy, very loopy <p ="msonormal"="">Thin kiri core = some flex, power loops and hits <p ="msonormal"="">Thick balsa core = no flex, so the blade doesn’t recoil by flexing, but just by surface deformation. With relatively instantaneous power delivery (still less than thick kiri or ayous core), and hence I find thick balsa core blade unsuitable for proper looping with full arm swing. <p ="msonormal"="">Thin balsa core = like BBC matts dream or viscaria, also limited flex … but still can be used for looping and hitting.<p ="msonormal"="">Thick Ayous or Kiri Core: Hitter's/Driver's blade with instantaneous power like say Yinhe T-8 or Amultart. <p ="msonormal"="">It’s a thin blade. And it has 2 wood layers on top of carbon, so “effective thickness” is even lower. This makes it a predominantly looping blade. It has some flex, not as flexy as a 6mm wooden blade, but some flex. Also it has a kiri core, which in my opinion has higher tensile strength than ayous. So its not necessarily a slow looping blade but a power looping blade. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Surface wood and thickness:<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">Koto is a hardwood. Which actually not only gives the hard instantaneous ball feel but also increases speed of the blade significantly. Also 2 layers of wood above carbon, gives it some woody feel of innerforce series or ma lin carbon etc. <p ="msonormal"="">Now why 2 layers instead of one thick layer? I asked this question myself, and reasoned as, probably the very hard top layers right above the extremely hard carbon layer would deteriorate the impact resistance due to very low bounciness of such brittle combo. Like bare blade is not fast when you hit the ball with it. There will be lot of energy dissipation at this point and hence will slow down the blade instead of making it faster. They have to probably buffer the hard koto wood with a layer of impact resistant limba below it, and then the 2 carbon layers sandwiching the kiri will provide the necessary rigidity. <p ="msonormal"="">Maybe I’m making up stories, maybe I’m miserably trying to apply my material science background. <span style="font-family:Wingdings; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-char-:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings"><span style="mso-char-:symbol;mso-symbol-font-family:Wingdings"></span></span> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">3k Carbon<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">The least important factor for me is the nature of composite… if it was 4k carbon or 10k carbon I wouldn’t have cared much. But I hear 3k is the fibre count (3000 fibre) of the carbon mesh or fleece or weave or whatever. <p ="msonormal"="">In earlier days, I think carbon blade used to use fleece, making them very pingy. Now using weaves, mesh and other stuff they are not pingy… so old logic of arylate stops the ping doesn’t work anymore. But yes arylate or aramid dampens the vibration to some extent, making them more stable in pushes, at the cost of some ‘pop’ or rebound spring. Do I like it or dislike it. Of course I like that spring while looping or hitting or driving,blocking, it gives much better hand feel. But of course I would anyday prefer more dampening when I am pushing or serving, or placing a drop shot on the net. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Feel <o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">So 729 F-1 is expectedly has a very good hand feel, decent oomph on aggression, and not as muted as say Timo Boll ALC in pushes and drop shots. With 729 F-1 I feel I can’t miss a loop or drive, with ALC I feel I can’t miss a push (also great in loop and loopdrive), with my YinHe V-1, or YinHe T-8, or Wavestone, I feel I can never miss a hit. (this is over generalization because rubbers also affect it). <p ="msonormal"="">The ball feel is quite accurate... which is same as TBS. Just to compare i consider the ball feel of photino to be very muffled and inadequate. As if photino you can aproximately detect when the ball hit the blade. but with 729 f-1 you can feel the ball exactly from the point it hit the blade through the entire hold time and when it is released. <p ="msonormal"=""> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Spring and power delivery<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">My YinHe V-1 is faster than this, delivering power more instantaneously, being a 7mm blade. So is amultart, photino, so is Innerforce ZLC(in spite of that being a thin blade). But when it comes to speed with spring, 729 F-1 is predictably better than all the above mentioned blades hands down. <p ="msonormal"="">It is in the category of TB ALC. However it is not as late in delivering the power as say Mizutani Jun blade, where I have to wait forever to allow for the blade to catch up with my motion. Mizutani Jun delivers very nice delayed power which really helps in away from the table power loops, but did you ever see mizutani play a fast cracking opening loop like Zhang Jike from close to table? <p ="msonormal"="">So, I believe depending on where you are positioned, close-mid-far, you may want to pick a blade that’s instantaneous OR little delayed OR much delayed in its rebound. 729 f-1 comfortably remains in mid range with near-nascent power delivery… or spring. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal"> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Speed <p ="msonormal"="">Speed (after the spring) surprised me for a 5.8mm blade. I used to be like the user ‘speedy’ ... very very afraid of lack of speed. But 729 F-1 delivers enough speed to win some points in opening loops or in looping rallies, paired with suitable rubbers. Paired with Palio Thor's, it is a awesome looping and driving combo. Paired with H3 Neo it is speedy, but more than that … it generates awesome spin in loops may be a tad higher than thor's. <p ="msonormal"="">When it comes to hitting, I wouldn’t say it’s a delight to hit because I have always played with 7mm composite blades.. and they deliver more instantaneous power. But I can say I dislike TBS particularly because it doesn’t hit so well. Timo Boll ALC is better, 729 F-1 is same as Timo Boll ALC when hitting. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Spin: <p ="msonormal"="">Spin was again notably <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>higher than my YinHe V-1, using H1 FH or even Palio Thor’s BH. H3 Neo was tenergy like spinny on FH, and I won so many points because this spin is delivered sooner than the tenergy (yes I know that’s what butterfly calls as micro second delay) but to Chinese top players, its probably even a micro second opportunity to deliver the ball before the opponent is ready. <p ="msonormal"="">And guys…mark my words if any of you end up trying this blade you will come back and tell me my observation on spin is correct. <p ="msonormal"="">With Acuda S1 however, ...it was not spinnier than 'acuda S1 on YinHe V1'. I can reason it as Acuda S1 sponge saturates little sooner than H3 Neo.. And hence even soft kiso hinoki top plys of YinHe V1 were able to extract the juice from Acuda S1…. But not for H3 Neo… which had some more juice to be milked with the hard koto outer ply of 729 F-1. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Blocks:<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">Whether in passive block or in punch block, I found 729-F-1 adequate with this great balance between stiffness and flex. In punch block it’s actually better than adequate… I would say it’s a strength.<p ="msonormal"=""> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Pushes: <p ="msonormal"="">Being a little springy, and particularly when using Acuda S1 which is also kinda springy, I had less margin for error than I have with my YinHe V1. V-1’s stiffness and soft hinoki layer makes it a very effective pushing tool and dropshot weapon. F-1 is decent, imo same as TBS, but little inferior to ALC. pushing with a bouncy rubber like acuda s1 or tenergy wasn't easy with F-1, but with thor's it was very nice.<p ="msonormal"="">F-1 tempts you to open loops faster, because that is so accurate. <p ="msonormal"=""> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Opening loops<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">It’s very good. I haven’t really played with pure wood thin blade which should make it even easier…. But this delivers the goods with enough power…. Even for low over the table backspin serves. (that is extreme case… and also not so with Acuda S1, but with h3 Neo, yes)<p ="msonormal"=""> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Counter Loops <o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">This is also a strength of this blade. It is particularly mentionable in this faculty. <p ="msonormal"="">It has enough power even if you move farther away from table, and you wont feel you are lacking the prowess to go for aggressive shots from there.<p ="msonormal"=""> <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Drives: <o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">Any 7mm composite blade will drive better … I mean with better results, not drive easier. 729 F-1 will drive better than TBS, MJ,... inferior to Amultart, TB ZLC, YinHe V-1. But it will give you more percentage of drives on table. This is the decision factor for me to choose this blade as my primary combo, when I already own a TB ALC and TBS. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>TB ALC is close, but 729-F-1 may have a edge with koto outer ply than limba (I guess) in TB ALC. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Serves<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">You need more caution with long serves because the spring can disrupt your estimates and go longer. I missed a few serves initially, but it is adjustable.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I am almost there. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Hits<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">Good hitting, but not the best hitting blade. All 7mm blades hit better with more power and more accuracy. <p ="msonormal"="">These days, I'm trying to mimic the Chinese hitting technique, which is unleash 80% power … instead of going all out 100% and missing. And keep going.... this way keep opponent under constant pressure till he misses a lob. So it is not making much difference to me<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>from YinHe V1, as far as point winning percentage. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Surface Durability on re-gluing<o:p></o:p> <p ="msonormal"="">Those who played 729 V-6, know how it splinters while removing rubbers. F-1 surface looks like it may also… except that its different wood from V-6, and hence holds reasonably strong. Still you may find a small number of very thin fibres attached to the glue, when you remove rubber. So I lightly sanded the top and it did help next time. I didn’t use any sealing coat on this $19 paddle. <p ="msonormal"=""><b style="mso-bidi-font-weight:normal">Conclusion: <p ="msonormal"="">For those who are 2 wing loopers, and more strongly, power loopers (as compared to pure control loopers), will love 729 F-1 blade more than the mega hyped TBS, Viscaria, or TB ALC. It has excellent ball feel, just adequate flex, very sweetly balancing the looping qualities and driving qualities. After adjusting to pushing and serves, I really appreciating how well I can recover out of position balls, and can make better use of the extremities of the table with sharper loop angle. At $19, 729 F-1 has surpassed my expectation, and surprised me like no other blades did. <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> <div id="isChromeWebToolbarDiv" style="display:none"> UPDATE (April 2014) : Recently bought couple new 729 F1 s and i was shocked to see that what used to be 82-88 gms...., has become 90 to 97 grams !!! and i measured around 10-12 pieces of the same blade. was very disappointed...BUT ... When i played with it.... i couldn't believe my shots!! they are better, crisper, and awesome control. WHY???? HOW?? i then figured the cross-section is same... while the handle is thicker, longer and different shape. From old viscaria type oval handle, it has now become Timo Boll ALC type smooth squarish handle. Giving much better control on fine movements. And the balance is superb!! ... its less head heavy even with heavy rubbers. Its a great change... and a great blade just became even better. I can't think of using any other blade.... being a power loooper and driver.... and everything else-er! Edited by debraj - 04/29/2014 at 2:37pm |
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nicefrog
Platinum Member Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2398 |
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Yep candlenut is very closely related to the tung tree and should feel similar as a core. I think the acoustic is nothing more special than limba limba tung limba limba? and joined together with some dead cows but it all adds up to a very smooth blade. You can burn the seed of the candlenut tree it's so oily and the tung tree is a famous for the oil to polish wood so it's sometimes hard to find more info about the wood of the tree itself because it's more famous for other things
Edited by nicefrog - 01/16/2011 at 10:44pm |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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ha ha looks like it has good firepower for just 29 dollar ...:)
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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So, is the core ply candlenut, Tung tree or kiri? The upper ply is certainly koto, although the quality is not that high-end as the koto I have on my OSP 528 blade. The speed seem to be OFF+ or even OF++ if we compare the blade to HK, it is as fast as HK if not faster.
The most surprising thing about F-1 is the fantastic feel of wood - which you will never find in, say, the T-series of Yinhe. This feel resolves in a very tight, not hollow sound when you smash the ball. And the sound is amazingly similar to H-WL+h2/h3 pro speed glued. I used only one layer of Extra Power w/b glue on M2 to produce this effect. Will try with 5 layers now.
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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"candlenut or kiri"
hang on... i am myself confused now... let me recheck..
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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okay it's not candlenut anymore.. it is kiri now
i'm sure i read candle-nut in some site. but checked with 729 website and it is kiri (paulownia). Imago: good to get your feedback. looking forward for more. it has turned out to be my staple blade at this time. i played tourney with this blade.. and did much better my previous performances. i will post a full review of the blade soon. |
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ThaiLe
Platinum Member Joined: 04/18/2008 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 2186 |
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I played with F-1 with TG2 Neo 39deg max and I kinda liked it. F-1 has a very nice feel of wood for sure. It does not feel hard like Carbon at all but it does have enough power when playing far from table. However, I don't think it is as fast as HK blade, IMO. The blade is worth a try, though.
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Probably Mercury 2 is faster on F-1. Such things happen.
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Review Added..
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vic#74
Super Member Joined: 07/26/2010 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 442 |
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Debraj is well known bollywood type honeymoon singer :) And it's really good for him and the forum. But for all ready to buy this blade I would strongly recommend wait at least for a month....and at first ask your self a question ARE YOU A POWERLOOPER ? :) Really ? :) Have you done even one counterloop in a big scoregame in your life ? The same with flicks and dropshots ? If the answer is "yes" then don't read me anymore go to the next post - you don't need my advice :) For all others - I think that keeping ball on the table has a much greater value and (will)rewards you with a bigger amount of won points. Stay away from (great) composite blades even for 19 usd. Allwoods are best here.
I'm looking senselessly sceptical here, I know. But the truth can't wait to be delivered :)
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ITC Premier XR
Nittaku Sieger Pk50 Tibhar Evolution EL-S |
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tennisfreak
Super Member Joined: 04/09/2010 Status: Offline Points: 215 |
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Blades are like people,the more you meet the more differences you would realize. Wake up and see your EJ journey is selfish and only for pure gratification,your personal likes and dislikes keep changing that's all,time to get out of this EJ journey.
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Vic#74: i definitely agree with you... and you are not being senselessly skeptical. The same blade has been tried by couple more people and reviews will be coming. It never means i'm suggesting that everyone will improve their game.
tennisfreak: i could agree with your comment if only my game had not improved over last 5 years. As for equipments it is always personal journey for everyone. I woudn't look at LKT torrent same way as i looked at it 4 years back. While i test out many equipments, i write reviews only when i come across something worthwhile. Last time i wrote a blade review, was exactly one year back when i found Innerforce ZLC, and figured it plays differently and worth mentioning. So it's definitely a journey, with a direction, not a discount shopping spree. Edited by debraj - 03/29/2011 at 4:51pm |
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sticharo
Super Member Joined: 12/29/2010 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 420 |
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That may be one of the best reviews I have ever read. Well done!
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mon22
Gold Member Joined: 03/05/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1174 |
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bump for the edited final review
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I am a total Newb. Come at me!
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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I am a composite hater, esp. when it comes to Yinhe. But this blade seems to do wonders, even compared to its prototype Innerforce. Debraj has written a very thorough and realistic review, no exaggeration. F-1 is a hidden treasure for those who have received formal training in their childhood. |
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ttran82
Super Member Joined: 01/21/2011 Location: US, Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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Even I started learning ping pong a little two years ago at the age of 33, I still find this blade amazing for its price. I changed from BTY ZLF and this blade worth every "extra" pennies
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ThaiLe
Platinum Member Joined: 04/18/2008 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 2186 |
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Please stop saying nice things about this blade; especially ttran82. So so tempting again... |
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ttran82
Super Member Joined: 01/21/2011 Location: US, Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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I won't stop you, if you happen to not like it, then give it to me so I will have a spare
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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Ha ha... even i can buy it from ThaiLe... if he decides to sell after playing with it. But thaile will have to make sure its below 85gm. :)
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ThaiLe
Platinum Member Joined: 04/18/2008 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 2186 |
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Yes, 85grs blade is perfect weight for me... |
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ttran82
Super Member Joined: 01/21/2011 Location: US, Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 133 |
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The one I have is 82g, and I somehow like the head to be a little heavy.
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Kolev
Gold Member Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
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Debraj, congratulations for this excellent review, but most of all congratulations for been brave enough to analyze a blade so unknown.We all need to follow your example and share our thoughts about our little toys who's names aren't on the over-hyped/priced lists we see everywhere. There are so many wonderful blades which we want to try but we don't dare cause there isn't enough info about them......and being on the subject-how comes no one of our Japanese speaking friends in the forums haven't translated those attractive catalogs of Darker, Kokutaku, TSP, Mizuno found on IRUIRU. At lest some info about the material and the properties of the blades. C'mon guys do it , cause the shop keepers there simply lack any communication skills and will to explain.
Sorry Debraj for jumping out of the subject |
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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If you wonder what to put on FH, try M2 @ 37 degrees - if red. |
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beowulf
Beginner Joined: 01/23/2009 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 96 |
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what is the blade face size..?? Is it more or less same as TB ALC or just a tad bigger..??
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Blade : Michael Maze ALC
F/H : Andro Hexer 2.1 B/H : Haifu Shark II Soft Max |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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156x150, handle is 102
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beowulf
Beginner Joined: 01/23/2009 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 96 |
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Thanks Imago..!!
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Blade : Michael Maze ALC
F/H : Andro Hexer 2.1 B/H : Haifu Shark II Soft Max |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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sticharo, kolev thanks... :)
kolev: i actually gambled with 2 blades. F-1 and F-5. I was determined to try some thinner blades than my usual ones, for better looping at cost of some drives and hits. I also preferred the 2 layer wood on carbon design of innerforce. And if i tried some galaxy blades it would have been a total gamble, because they don't disclose composition of the blades. I think the reason could be that YinHe use cheaper woods like juniper and american hinoki (cypress) a lot, instead of more expensive woods like koto or paulownia. I am very appreciative of 729 to clearly mention the wood layers on their website. So after observing the designs... i selected 2 thicknesses, 5.9 (F-1) and 6.2(F-5). I played with F-5 once but haven't yet done justice to adapt to it, because after playing with F-1, it turned out to be surpass my expectation, particularly in balancing the looping (flex) and hitting (lack of flex) properties. I actually bought the blade for $16... but right after i received it and played with it...i checked and they have increased the price to $19. But guess what, i also ended up purchasing a TB ALC in parallel, because a tourney was too close. And now i will prolly end up selling that blade, so i can buy 6 more F-1 s |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
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ha ha... isn't this the hindu god who had cut off the head of his child because he wont let him pass? ;) gods make ruthless daddies... make you burn in hell, decapitate, molest, rape and pay for someone else's sins.
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Yes, that's my avatar, decapitated and replaced by elephant's head.
With so many arms, Shiva could find a perfect use for your 6 blades.
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