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Review: Tuttle World #1 rubber |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Posted: 02/08/2011 at 3:46pm |
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Thanks to razortt from FastPaddle, a few of forummers are given a
chance to test some of new Tuttle rubbers. Here starts my review of
Tuttle World # 1 rubber.
Photos first: |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Standard info about the rubber:
Brand: Tuttle Name: World No.1 Thickness: 2.1 Tackiness: absolutely non-tacky, rather dry surface Hardness: 41/40 - topsheet/sponge Weight: medium, around 46 g cut I would assume. Sponge looks pretty standard, yellow, relatively hard (medium-hard I estimate). Not porous - see the pics above. I have put it on my Galaxy T-4 (together with Tuttle's 888 and now with LV). |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Let me tell you that very few offensive rubbers play well on Galaxy T-4 for under 2200-2300 combination-style players. T-4 is a very fast and very bouncy and relatively flexy carbon blade which does not play well in the short passive game when paired up with offensive rubbers.
After this preamble I should say that W#1 from Tuttle is not as fast as the offensive rubbers I normally use - say Palio Macro Era or GD Karate Hard. And this certainly made it much more suitable for use on T-4. W#1 is OFF- or ALL+ rubber which has extremely (compared to OFF/OFF+ rubbers) control, not a lot of sensitivity to the incoming spin (probably even less than PME), but in turn it loses in speed. As for spin, I should say that it still has quite a decent amount of it - if deficit of speed compared to PME is about 20% (which is a lot in the world of TT rubbers), then deficit of spin is way less than that... perhaps only 5-10%... but that's a very subjective estimate of course. Overall, out of all three rubbers from Tuttle (888, LV, W#1) I liked this one the best - it played very reliably and comfortably on the forehand side of my Galaxy T-4, allowing me both very good control even in short game (says a lot when it's on T-4) and only a small overall deficit of speed (due in good part to T-4's quickness and bounce) and spin. I will later try its properties as a backhand rubber, and will report in a few days. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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Skippy
Super Member Joined: 02/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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I played the Tuttle World #1 on the same blade that I played the 888 on. It's a relatively stiff, fast carbon blade about the same speed as a Primorac Carbon.
The World #1 had some of the same characteristics as the 888 in appearance. It had some texture look about the surface of the topsheet (which yet again reminded me of Air Illumina). Also like the 888 the pips on topsheet were really short. Shorter than I am used to seeing between the topsheet and sponge. The sponge is much more typical of a Chinese sponge of around 40 degrees on a Chinese scale I would guess.
This rubber had by far the highest throw of the three Tuttle rubbers I sampled. I like fairly high throws on my forehand so it was a pretty nice marriage right away for my forehand. My backhand struggled a little with it, but with a few adjustments it played pretty nicely on the backhand side too eventually. On the speed side I would consider this rubber a fairly all around rubber with most setups, but if you have a fast blade you'll definitely be able to produce enough speed to hit passing shots. This rubber kinda reminded me of H3 Neo without the tack. I really liked it alot. On counters it even makes that same sound that H3 produces that sounds like the balls are breaking. Loops were easily executed with a nice high comfortable arc that would drop nicely on your opponents side of the table. It also had a nice dip off the bounce too. It didn't much kick long off the table it just bounced and started dropping like a rock off the end of the table. That's a good reaction considering I was using a blade that made it very difficult to impart spin on the ball with other rubbers. The serves were nice and acceptably spinny, and it was very easy to keep the ball nice and short due to the rubber not being super bouncy. It's not dead in it's feeling either. This sponge is pretty high quality for a chinese sponge. Counters were nice as I mentioned earlier it made a sound like the balls were breaking. It's very controllable. Pushes are awesome with this rubber. I have never been able to control this blade for pushes. This rubber was a perfect answer to that dillema they were low, and loaded. Blocking is good, however not quite as much margin for error as other Chinese rubbers cause not having tack on the rubber does make blocks a bit faster. Smashes were pretty good too.
All in all I really enjoyed this rubber a tremendous amount. It plays like a non tacky H3 Neo right out of the package. I hope the sponge keeps this performance up for a couple of months. If it does this is a tremendous rubber for the money. I will keep playing this rubber to see how it's long term performance does. This is a pretty good step. With Chinese rubbers either I like them right off the bat or I hate them immediately. This one I really liked right off the bat.
Thank you very much for letting me try these rubbers Razor!
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Xiom Zetro Quad
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Skippy
Super Member Joined: 02/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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Anyone wanna know how to kill a thread dead? Just pm me.....
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Xiom Zetro Quad
FH: Andro Hexer Max BH: Xiom Euro Vega Max |
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thethinker
Silver Member Joined: 11/17/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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Skippy, what is the sponge color of your World No 1? How does the hardness compare to 888?
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pingpongrob
Gold Member Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1016 |
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Skippy & JimT, what was the hardeness that was printed on the packaging, I believe the World No.1, 888, LV are available in soft, medium or hard, the later 2 being factory tuned.
I have tried all 6 new rubbers, and although they are a vast improvement, they were all to soft for my liking. The 6 sheets that I was sent were all marked SOFT. |
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Skippy
Super Member Joined: 02/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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I didn't make note of the markings on the sponge. I am not sure why I didn't. The 888 sponge is a beige pumice stone probably around 38-40 degrees by Chinese standards. The LV is a stupid soft white sponge by the Chinese scale I think the sponge hardness would be about 6 degrees (hyperbole). I would guess that it's hardness is less than 30 degrees even by ESN standards. The World #1 is a bright orange probably around 42-44 degrees by Chinese standards. I first thought it was a little softer when I was feeling them with their protection sheets on, but it's definitely a little bit harder than the 888. Oh, speaking of the protection sheets! They are the best protection sheets I have gotten with a sheet of rubber. Firm well put together, and very sticky. The stamps on the non sticky side on there well enough that if you put them front to back no damge incurrs when peeling them apart which does happen with other makes of protection sheets. Edited by Skippy - 02/09/2011 at 9:06pm |
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Xiom Zetro Quad
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thethinker
Silver Member Joined: 11/17/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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Thanks pingpongrob for the info. I overlooked the marking as well.
What six rubbers did you tried? There are nine total. You mean you tried everything but the hard version, right? Thanks Skippy. I wanted the info that pprob provided because I have received: world No 1 blk, 2.1, soft 888 red, 2.1, hard LV red, 2.1, hard so World No 1 is slightly different, like not tuned and softer. Could you and Jim tell me the marking so I know what rubbers you are talking about? Thanks. |
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pingpongrob
Gold Member Joined: 07/09/2007 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1016 |
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I believe that there is only 5 new rubbers 1. Tuple 007 factory tuned, 6 hardness versions - 34, 36, 37, 38, 39 & 40 (same as DHS Scale) 2. Kokutaku 868 factory tuned 6 hardness versions - 34, 36, 37, 38, 39 & 40 (same as DHS Scale) 3. Tuttle World No.1, 3 sponge hardnes, soft medium & Hard - the Medium and hard are factory tuned, they must come in vacuum sealed packaging, the soft is in normal packaging. 4. Tuttle 888, come in 2 sponge versions which have 3 sponge hardness's each, same applies for the factory tuning as World No.1 The manufacturer calls it Gold cover Version & red Cover version, The Red Cover Version is the Large Honey comb sponge. and Finally the premium version: 5. Tuttle LV, comes in 3 sponge hardness's - Soft, Medium & Hard. The later 2 factory tuned. I was sent the soft version of all 5 rubbers. the soft versions are claimed to be 35-40 degree's is actually 25 degree's on my scale the medium version is claimed to be 40-45 degree's the hard version is claimed to be 45-50 degree's. I asked Mr Zhao how long the Factory tuning last, and apparently its about 2 months. |
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Distributor for Andro, XIOM, Tibhar, Joola, Dr Neubauer, Donic, DHS, AIR, Dawei, 729 & Yinhe
http://www.affordablett.com.au |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I have just given all the three cutout pieces to my friend with the durometer - the results will be coming soon. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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Which one precisely were you sent?
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razortt
Silver Member Joined: 07/09/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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They are suppose to be around 39 degree hardness.
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I will post hardness data in a few minutes. There will be a (probably) short thread dedicated to the relative characteristics of Tuttle rubbers.
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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thethinker
Silver Member Joined: 11/17/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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I think pingpongrob asked not about the hardness test but the marking on the back of the package. I wanted to know also.
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razortt
Silver Member Joined: 07/09/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Do you happen to take a picture of the back of the package where it says hard or soft ?
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I don't have them with me right now - when I get back home, I will take a look, but I suspect they were all marked HARD, except maybe for 888...? |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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Skippy
Super Member Joined: 02/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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The LV that I was sent better not be the hard version if it is, the soft version is the softest rubber ever made. I am going to hope the LV that I got was the soft version.
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Xiom Zetro Quad
FH: Andro Hexer Max BH: Xiom Euro Vega Max |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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Eacheng claims that hardness for World #1 is in 40-42 range which coincides with the durometer readings I have (40 for sponge, 41 for topsheet).
This is nice - if it were a little faster it could be exactly what Outlaw enthusiasts wanted, a durable version of Outlaw with a slightly softer sponge. However I am a bit disappointed that this rubber is a tuned one. I was hoping for something that lasts more than two months. But you can't beat the price ($7.99 @ Eacheng... I am not sure but it seems that FastPaddle doesn't carry it yet) which is basically half the price of Outlaw. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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razortt
Silver Member Joined: 07/09/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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We can have the manufacturer to customize the hardness of the sponge for us. |
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JimT
Premier Member Joined: 10/26/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14602 |
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I think in this case it's not a matter of hardness (for me) but an issue of springiness of the sponge. But it's OK since W#1 is positioned more like OFF-/ALL+ rubber and not like all-out-attacking rubber. By the way, is FastPaddle going to carry it? I couldn't find it in your store. |
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Single Ply Hinoki Club, Founding Member
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thethinker
Silver Member Joined: 11/17/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 776 |
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My Tuttle World No 1 soft review:
Thanks to razortt and fastpaddle I've received a black, 2.1mm Tuttle World No 1 soft to test and review. This is a first impression of the rubber. The rubber came in a very simple packaging. It is a soft rubber like 729-02 but with even less tack and even softer sponge. I used World No 1 on several blades like Spear, Oscar, and Acoustic, all on the backhand. This rubber is simply too soft to be useful for me. It bottomed out even on long pushes such that heavy spin can't be generated with those pushes. I could hit and loop a little with it. The looping was questionable since I was basically looping with wood. I think girls and children can use this rubber, because they don't hit hard enough to bottom out often. Beginners benefit from it being easy to hit, less spin to deal with, easy to block because it doesn't take on too much of the spin. But with the inability to create heavy pushes you will be a sitting duck like I was. World No 1 can only be used for blades with a soft feel, like hinoki blades. With harder blades the user lose control when the rubber bottomed out. I like the manufacture to make the soft version a little harder. The soft version as it is a "D+" to me. I am with pingpongrob on the soft versions. I would love to try the hard version instead. |
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razortt
Silver Member Joined: 07/09/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 504 |
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Yes, it will be posted soon. Truly appreciate your time to test them out. |
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Skippy
Super Member Joined: 02/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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Thanks Razor for letting us take part in this.
I am still really enjoying the World No. 1 on the forehand side still. Getting ready to send it out with some blades soon. The hard version sponges of these rubbers seem to be better marriages with the topsheets than the soft sponges.
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Xiom Zetro Quad
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PingPongHolic10
Silver Member Joined: 12/17/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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First Impressions: World No.1: Is this the second version? I remember trying a similar rubber with vanilla sponge. That rubber is an ALL+ to OFF- rubber. I got the Hard version for this rubber, and comes with firm topsheet with bright orange sponge, very hard like Palio Hadou/729-08. My first impression was that this is a BH rubber for sure. I tested on my FH on my V-6 World No.1 in session: The rubber is also loud for a Chinese rubber. It’s probably the glue effect. It’s barely tacky, but very grippy. Good speed and okay spin, easy to pick up heavily underspin balls. Has very High Throw with my V6. It displays bounciness like a tensor, however, it works excellent in the short game. IMO a very good Allaround rubber. Serving: spin on this rubber is good enough, especially on fast the deep serves. Hard to get the near net short spinny serves. Looping: All types of looping are fairly easy to do. Slamming is not good with this combo as I missed about 80% of my smash kills. It works good close & away from the table. Blocking: The blocking game is okay, because of the throw. I had to adjust the blade face faster, which usually is not the case as the balls would end up out of the table. Haven’t tried counter loops & blocking loops yet. Will update when I get the chance. . In conclusion I will rate World No.1 (Hard Black) as follows: Speed: 7 out of 10 Spin: 7 out of 10 Control: 7 out of 10 Sponge hardness: Very Hard Top Sheet: Barely Tacky & Grippy Category: ALL+ to OFF- |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1012 |
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I played again 2 hours this time with the MJ and World #1 on the FH and 888 on the BH. It does not have a high throw however I had huge arcs because my actual technique and the spinny side of the rubber. Everything was landing OK because the additional spin and it was a lot of fun to see those new balls I was producing. It went from cool to VERY interesting when we started to counterloop: I do know how to counterloop howver I have a problem in practice to counterloop at 70% of my maximum strength in order to keep the ball on the table. With the Genius from Tibhar or the Tenergy from that other company (forgot the name) it is hard to go half way and we loose precision when we do: the ball goes funny when we do not go through the ball with application. With the world #1 I was producing a huge arc and a slowvery spinny ball and I could go again and again and did kill the ball when the cardio was going too high. This is the main advantage of this rubber: the average club player can use World #1 to develop a more consistent counterloop to allow a slower and still spinny ball, giving time for recovery and, above all, to allow the use of full power and be able to tune the stroke with a high margin for variations. In conclusion I'd say my main satisfaction playing that rubber is its freedom of manoeuvrability. I recommend to anybody above 1200 and below intermediate level to learn looping on OFF blade (Samsonov Alpha; BTY Primorac; Avalox BT550...). I gave the tubber (free of charge) to Tom (www.tomveatch.com/tt). He runs a tt class for kids and I though it would be good to make him know about the rubber for his students (he likes slow himself). He will write something about it later in April (I also gave him the 888) On a side note I would love to organize a friendly competition where I would impose players to play with World #1 on a ALL paddle (all provided by the tournament board) and see what happens in terms of spectacle and long rallies. Has it been ever done? it would be close to an iverted equivalent of a hardbat championship.
Thank you razortt for giving me the opportunity to try a nice control spinny rubber. |
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