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Fast Long Serves

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    Posted: 02/09/2011 at 4:27pm
Hi guys, as the title suggests, my long serves suck and i need help on them.

what I know so far:

low contact, close to my endline

more contact then brush

forearm snap for speed


but i still cant get it right, any tips would be good :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2011 at 4:44pm
you really don't need the forearm in my opinion....it's more like snapping your wrist forward  (depending on how you hold the blade).

here's a video i did about serves in general. i'll fast forward to the part where i did fast long serves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VYspPpbCKI&t=1m3s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fardude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2011 at 11:09pm
thx man :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/09/2011 at 11:22pm
you are very welcome sir. i hope that the video is of great use to you =)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppgear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2011 at 12:39am
I find it easier to generate serve speed when combining forearm motion with wrist. I can't imagine using only one or the other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ppgear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2011 at 12:40am
Originally posted by tpgh2k tpgh2k wrote:

you really don't need the forearm in my opinion....it's more like snapping your wrist forward  (depending on how you hold the blade).

here's a video i did about serves in general. i'll fast forward to the part where i did fast long serves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VYspPpbCKI&t=1m3s
Also, you are using your forearm in those serves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2011 at 1:56am
lol! you got me. that is true. i was thinking more that you didn't need much of a follow through. but you are correct that forearm and wrist is needed to get that extra speed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2011 at 2:14am
Transfer your body weight into the shot and hit forward through the ball .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fardude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2011 at 11:21pm
thx guys, im gonna try ur suggestions Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/10/2011 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

hit forward through the ball .


I think this is very important. I found out to make a long serve fast and deep, I have to mostly go for the back of the ball and hit forward through, regardless of what type of spin (top/back/side).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VictorK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/11/2011 at 1:26pm
As you practice these serves (any serves for that matter, but these especially) make sure that you also practice getting back quickly into ready position, as fast serves results in very fast returns ... BTW, vast majority of fast serves into a corners get returned cross court.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2011 at 1:32am
Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

As you practice these serves (any serves for that matter, but these especially) make sure that you also practice getting back quickly into ready position, as fast serves results in very fast returns ... BTW, vast majority of fast serves into a corners get returned cross court.


It is also important to be able to place that fast serve to different spots on the table.

I also think that the thing that makes a fast long serve effective is not telegraphing it.  Can you serve short with a very similar motion right up to the contact point?  If not, work on that. 

And lastly, practice each serve as though you were actually serving in a match.  Start with a truly stationary hand and pause before tossing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fardude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2011 at 2:02am
thx guys

@wturber: yeah man, ur absolutely right, cause if they know im gonna do it before i do it kinda ruins the point of the serve being fast

@Victor K: thx man ill keep that in mind :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2011 at 8:50am
Originally posted by kenneyy88 kenneyy88 wrote:

Transfer your body weight into the shot and hit forward through the ball .


i find that my back hip (for FH pendulum serves) helps drive the ball for the best speed/with control.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2011 at 11:50am
Sometimes I don't even worry about trying to put any real spin on , more forearm,always letting the ball drop a little more and have a slight glideing action (and as others have said about placement and deception)
 
 Also do what do you get out of the serve? are you hoping for a mistake, win it outright, etc . What Im trying to say is keeping in mind what are the expected results and what your third ball will be are all connected to your serve. So have some plans in place to attack your third ball
 (one older lady I used to play would do a unexpected fast long ball corner to corner and would always to the other corner real fast lol) still caught people outSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phot0n Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2011 at 5:21pm
Agree that forearm + wrist is the key to really strong spin on the ball. I'm a stickler for the pendulum serve and putting severe back-and-side spin servers. I'm usually not successful with long serves unless they are just simply sneaky-fast-down-the-line ones which seem to really irritate the pen-holders. If you do long, then try to get the second bounce close to the edge. And if you do lots of long serves, then occasionally do a short double-bouncer.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/12/2011 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by smackman smackman wrote:

what do you get out of the serve? 

IMO fast down the line is more for winning points directly. 
Fast crosscourt is for setting up your rally. You can block down the line. OR Step a little back and take a forehand or backhand from backhand corner.
Fast to the middle is more for trying to jam them and get a good third ball. 


Edited by kenneyy88 - 02/12/2011 at 7:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2011 at 12:45am
I hit fast long serves with my BH from corner to corner.  It doesn't take much skill or much effort.  All this body weight transfer non sense is just that, nonsense. The ball doesn't weigh that much.  I have no clue what kind of spin my fast and low serves have but  opponents seem to have problems with these serves because of the speed.   I have LP on my BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fardude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2011 at 12:59am
i guess i could start practicing it with my backhand serve first to get a feel for it, thx :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/13/2011 at 1:22am
Originally posted by pnachtwey pnachtwey wrote:

I hit fast long serves with my BH from corner to corner.  It doesn't take much skill or much effort.  All this body weight transfer non sense is just that, nonsense. The ball doesn't weigh that much.  I have no clue what kind of spin my fast and low serves have but  opponents seem to have problems with these serves because of the speed.   I have LP on my BH.


I'm inclined to agree.  Though I'm a big fan of varying placement and spin.  There's a limit to the pace you can put on the ball simply because it has to land on both sides of the table. So keeping it low and keeping it a surprise are major factors in the success of the serve.  Any good modern player should be looking to aggressively attack any serve that is long.  Against good players, a good long serve is mostly useful to keep your opponent off balance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatorling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/14/2011 at 1:34pm
I think one of the most important aspects is the height you strike the ball and the location of the first bounce.
The first bounce should be as close as you can get it to the end of your side of the table. If you can make the first bounce hit the white area then you'll be able to generate tremendous speed.

You should also strike the ball as low as you possibly can. The lower the better.

Without getting into the physics of it, the harder you hit the ball. The longer its path will be and often times it'll just go off the table. That's why you want to make the first bounce close to your edge. There is more "cushion" for error and you can put more into your serve without overshooting it.

The second point is to hit it low. If you hit it higher your racket tends to contact the top half of the ball which drives the ball into the table and gives it a high bounce. If you hit it low, the tendency is that the contact is at the back of the ball so all your power is giving your serve speed.

Combine these two principles with turning your body into the serve and using your arm/forearm/shoulder rather than wrist and you'll have a good fast flat serve.

In my opinion, flat serves are faster than top spin serves. You usually have a choice between speed and spin although there are some players who can achieve an incredible mix of the two.

My primary serve is the pendulum serve and so my opponent always expects it to curve to his backhand. when I give a fast, flat no-spin serve down the line, it's almost always a guaranteed point.

Like previous posters have said, you need to vary your serves until you find your opponent's weakness then attack that. If my opponent has problem with extreme backspin I will serve that almost exclusively. This nets me a lot of "free" points and really wrecks havoc on my opponent's confidence and usually frustrates them.


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