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Primorac Off- Club |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Posted: 10/11/2011 at 12:55pm |
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Who out there loves their Primorac? It doesn't matter what your level or playing style just want to stir the pot for this great BTY blade. What is it about this blade that makes it a great one...here is my observations:
1. It looks darn good (handsome devil with it's dark wood in the handle with the light strip running down the middle.
2. Medium solid feel with good ball feel and the right vibrations.
3. A bit on the heavy side but balances very nice in the hand. Feels like a "serious" blade with 2.1 or max rubbers.
4. Provides the right amount of dwell time for looping, enough power close to mid to hit past your opponent.
5. A bit expensive now but every mid level or upper mid level player should own one.
6. Good for beginners with thin rubbers.
7. A broad spectrum blade that can do it all.
The only negatives is the FL handle could be a bit bigger, and the price could come down (wishful thinking). Yes I know about OSP and others which I have tried and they are great too but for some reason I keep coming back to this great BTY blade. I wish ST. and AN where available in the USA as they were in the past. If NASA ever sent a blade up into space for our little green friends My vote is for sending the legendary Primorac. But then again they may prefer composites better.
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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If you aren't sure which of the thousands of blades on the market to buy as a first and last blade then this is the one you get, it's a totally safe decision
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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As safe of a decision it is, there are quite a few near identical playing blades for a lot cheaper than 68 dollars. If not for the butterfly price raises, I'm with you. It's a great blade. But as for now- it's over priced in my opinion for what it is.
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cotdt
Gold Member Joined: 10/19/2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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What blades are similar to this one but cheaper?
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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The handle WAS bigger.
I ran into an older version of the blade and its handle was thicker and tapered less in thickness than the current version. It was very comfortable unlike the current version.
Why the heck did BTY change a good handle. To save material? Edited by racquetsforsale - 10/11/2011 at 2:58pm |
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jonyer1980
Gold Member Joined: 07/30/2008 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 1600 |
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Old logo version with metal tag was far away than the current one that sucks (the one with the plastic tag with new logo). Quality and feeling was much better.
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Rosewood V FL
Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
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mikepong
Gold Member Joined: 03/09/2011 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 1202 |
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my second blade, good 5 ply blade with lots of dwell time and control, good for looping but a little expensive though IMHO
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mizutani_jun
Gold Member Joined: 01/21/2009 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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Too bad this blade is no longer available in ST.
I really like ST handle. |
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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The one with metal tag was made in Japan and the one with plastic tag was made in one of the Eastern European country. Currently with the new regulation, you can't get the Japanese version. I heard that the Japanese version is a lot better. Mine is also European version and it is certainly as thick as my Japanese Korbel (around 5.9 mm). However, I read the Japanese catalog and it is written that Japanese Primorac is only 5.5 mm in thickness. I like mine also, but I found one equivalent, that is Donic Waldner Senso V1 (yellow handle, all wood). I don't say that Donic Waldner V1 has exactly the same feel with Primorac Off-, but function wise, it is as versatile as Primorac Off-. Edited by doraemon - 10/11/2011 at 8:40pm |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Mine has the silver square logo at the end of the handle. It also has a seriel number etched on the blade face. I thought it was made in Japan now not sure. When new it had high build quality, the only thing I had to do was seal it and lightly sand the FL handle. I will order 2 more just in case BTY has another mind rot to discontinue it. They are very famous for discontinuing great blades.
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doraemon
Gold Member Joined: 05/14/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1738 |
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The silver square logo is the new logo. They are for Japanese made blades. So yours is made in Japan.
The plastic logo is for European market. If I am not wrong, they are made in Hungary. Not sure though. Edited by doraemon - 10/11/2011 at 11:07pm |
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Are you kidding me? It's half the price of the blade that most US1300-1400 players choose (TBS/ALC) $68 is a not much money for a blade that can take you from US800 to US1700 easily without having to switch blades. In fact, it could save players quite a bit of money over it's lifespan. I do think it's too fast as an upgrade from a premade, (even with 1.7mm Flextra's) but it's a great OFF- blade that does so many things well. |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Did Zoran actually use this blade a few years ago or is it BTY mythology and marketing? Some here think it is a slow blade but paired with Tenergy, Bryce or Bryce speed it has mucho speed. Agree compared to many BTY blades the price isn't right but it's not crazy either.
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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I'm sure he would have used it. None of the other European pros at that time where using blades any faster than a Primorac. Waldner never used a fast blade, you just didn't need it with the 38mm.
The thing that took me 10 years after the ball change to realise is that you still don't need it. We all got carried away with trying to make up the 10-15% loss of speed and spin the ball change caused with faster blades and more spinny rubbers. Finally I've realised if you just accept that the game is now 10-15% slower and use the same equipment you would have used in the late 1990s you will improve your rating 10-15% instantly :0. The overall lower quality of the average club player since the change can be blamed entirely on faster blades and thicker rubber or indirectly the ball change itself
Edited by bluebucket - 10/12/2011 at 1:15am |
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ttennis1
Member Joined: 05/31/2011 Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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Well....well,
I have the pleasure of using the Primorac (OFF-) for sometime now and it is a great blade. Paired it up with Flextra rubbers and I think it is a very good combination for a Beginner player. My blade has Made in Japan written on the handle along with the rest of the details. @frogger rightly summarized! Edited by ttennis1 - 10/12/2011 at 2:42am |
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Butterfly Primorac (OFF-)
FH:Yasaka Mark-V (max) BH:Butterfly Flextra (1.5) |
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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No I'm not kidding you. There's nothing truly better about it compared to most other thinner 5-plys on the market. Most of them are under 50 bucks. You can't really compare it to a popular arylate-carbon blade price wise. It's nothing but a 5-ply. Only butterfly can charge what it does for a simple 5-ply blade, especially after they are cutting the quality down a bit compared to previous years. There are many other blades you can keep no matter how good you get, its not like the primorac is the only blade that can take you from rating a to rating b. The blade is NOT what takes you to a certain level. Dont give it too much speed credit either- Sriver 1.9 or 2.1mm on primorac isn't too fast for any beginner. Butterfly is popular for taking old models of blades, painting a new handle and name on it, and re-releasing it for 40 dollars more. It's butterfly. That's half the reason the blade is popular in the first place. I also find it silly that they have the same blade in two different tiers of quality... and when people try to get the better one (from japan) they shut it down so that you can only buy from your country. In my mind it would be bad for a company to allow two different levels of quality going out in the market for the same product. sure it's a great blade, but there are plenty of other great and arguably better 5-plys for a lot cheaper. Again- it's just a simple 5-ply blade that's been around forever, and it's not worth 68 dollars when I can buy an Extra for basically half the price.
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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The price to Primorac jump about 20% last year, but so is other BTY blades. At $68, I think it's still affordable, and for me if the an equipment is affordable, and if it helps my game (or that I like it), it's a go . You can save $20-$30 getting a similar blade from Yinhe, 729, Palio, etc... but at the eod, you still don't have the Primorac, and the saving is not that significant imo.
For me I like the Korbel better, but it you want more control, then you can't go wrong with the Primorac.
Edited by mhnh007 - 10/12/2011 at 9:57am |
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1403 |
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I think the point is...why would you want a Primorac over a Yinhe, 729, Palio, etc.? It's like what beeray said, nothing sets it apart except for the Butterfly name, which does nil to help your game.
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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I wouldn't especially choose one over a Yasaka or Stiga 5 ply blade but I would drop the extra money over anything Yinhe, 729 or Pailo make just for the extra consistency and knowing what you are going to get. Specifically because of the more random handles from those makes, a handle different than you expected is a total deal breaker for me and worse than a blade weight that's out of spec. I will add that 729's handles are always the same, only problem is they are always a weird shape
Edited by bluebucket - 10/12/2011 at 9:41am |
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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No, I don't think you get the point. The point is, if you don't like, it, then fine. But if you do, why try to save a $20-30 to get something similar, but may not be the same? And if you do know a blade that play exactly the same, then please let us know.
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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Ha ha, ho ho, he he. Was guilty of this myself from 2002-2008 (OFF blade, made smashes, kills, drives less returnable, made unforced errors more and more obvious).
Not really disagreeing here. And of course there are plenty of other blades that can take you from 800-> 1700. Just wanted to make the point that many players wind up using 5+ blades during their quest to improve, or they jump into something as fast as a TBS, YEO or Clipper and plateau really early. In fact, we have a young guy at the club (early 20's) who abandoned his Primorac at about 1300 after just a year of play. He was a high school tennis star, very athletic, and very good technique. 4 years later, he's still @ 1400 (he went with an OFF+, because it made his loopkill devastating). He regularly beats US1600 players and loses to US1200 players. Although he has much better strokes and footwork and sense of the game and tactics than he did at US1300, his ability to take control of the point just isn't there and people can and often do exploit his equipment (encouraging him to push long, giving him heavy topspin and even helping him create popups during the push/opener). Don't get me wrong, his stellar footwork and very good stroke mechanics means that he can play topspin defense far better than most people at his level; but when your OFF+ is frequently being used to lob from far court, that's often a sign that something has gone horribly wrong. And ironically, perhaps, the Extra would be my choice for a blade of higher quality (Swedish construction, Japanese attention to QC and finishing) in that speed class. In fact I own one, and it's my backup blade. The increased flex flex makes it pair with Chinese rubbers a bit better as well... But the Primorac, side by side with the Extra, flat hits better (less flex, better control), blocks more stably and has an edge for controlled pushing (again, because of slightly more stiffness). So while I like the Extra more, especially for looping, it's simply not as versatile a blade. At the level that the Primorac excels, players should be learning all the strokes, and it's good at all of them. Of course, we will always have US800-1100 "3rd ball attackers" and "powerloopers" and "two winged loopers" who choose other equipment like the TBS, YEO, HK, etc. etc. (either because their heros use it, because someone better recommends, or because it makes their attack that much more powerful), but those faster equipment choices inevitably come at a cost to the strokes they have not developed. And I would go so far that argue that the Primorac even rivals some of Stiga's slower blades for controlled and stable service return. Kind of an important part of the game, no? |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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I don't know why people complain about and extra $30 with something that is pretty much forever like a blade, by the time you get there, accommodation and pay entry it usually costs ten times that per tournament. If you play 5-10 tournaments per year, your blade price is almost a non issue and apart from training balls it's the most important thing you will ever buy in table tennis.
Pay the extra money and get a good sensible blade. To play their best most people under US 2200 need to use an all to -off 5 ply and the Primorac is one of the top few 5 plys around. Blades with hard surfaces like the Rosewood and YEO are technically better blades but who's good enough to use one of those blades to it's full potential... not as many as think they are
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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2.1 Sriver is not suitable for a beginner on the Primorac. 1.9 Flextra is a much better rubber for them. I use 2.1 Sriver on mine since I have played the game since cavemen where hitting berries back and forth with a fern. Smashes are fast, loops are powerful, flat hits quick, control is great...what else other than good coaching do we need. Primorac is one of those blades that "finds the table" for alot of players and I think that is why it is very popular and a BTY top seller.
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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If anyone knows and equally good or better blade cheaper than Primorac, please name the blade or shut up. I have 7 5-ply blades and I used to like them before I got my first Primorac. Now they all blow hard. One is too stiff, one is flexy but the top ply is too hard. Nothing gives me the same ball feel. It has just the right vibration, the right stiffness, softness, speed. My other blades just feel sterile now, it's like somebody cut out some of the features of a blade.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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One of my alltime favs: Donic Persson PowerPlay, also P. Power Allround and the Appelgren Allplay. (depending on your level) |
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I, too, pick the Persson Power Allround over the Primorac any day.
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Hey everyone please keep it friendly, this thread is just a fun way to exhalt the legendary Primorac Off-. Some prefer other blades, some like myself have a long time love affair with this blade. All the other blades are perfectly fine blades in their own right, are cheaper in some cases but are not a Primorac. No one blade is perfect for everyone, that's what makes our sport unique.
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rookies
Silver Member Joined: 07/28/2010 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 782 |
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I love my Primorac Off- so much, and sometime I feel it is as good as my TBS. However, I wish it is a ST handle instead of FL handle because it feel so empty when I hold it and my hand is already too small.
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dingyibvs
Gold Member Joined: 05/09/2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 1403 |
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Because I'll like the $20-30(or more) cheaper blade just as much? Why would I care to get a blade that plays exactly the same? So what if another 5-ply has a bit more or less vibrations, so what if it's a bit stiffer or flexier, so what if it's a little harder or softer, so what if it's a little heavier or lighter? Like that's really gonna affect my game. That's the point you, and many others on this thread don't get, as exemplified by the challenges to find another blade that plays exactly the same. With that said, I get your point just fine. You're the type of person who demands something exact, something precisely to your liking for whatever reason, whether it's fit to your style, familiarity, or simply brand association. What you don't get is that many of us aren't that type of person. We believe that we can make tiny adjustments to our strokes to fit the minute differences between the Primorac and similar blades. More than that, we believe that we'll come to love any of the vast array of blades that suit our style once we get used to it. For example, I have a 5-ply wood blade, a 7-ply wood blade, and a 5-ply super stiff carbon blade. Now, I want to try a flexier carbon/fiber blade. The most popular of such blades is undoubtedly the TB ALC(or one of its predecessors), I've tried it out, and I really liked it. Am I gonna go and spend $150 to get one? Hell no! I'm gonna spend $40 and get something with a similar structure. Whatever differences there are between my new blade and the ALC, and there surely will be some, will be more than made up for by some minor stroke adjustments on my part, probably within a week or two, and I'll come to love it just the same.
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Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL
FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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Does anyone know if a dealer can order one in ST. or AN? Dealers in europe offer Primorac in all 3 grips, I guess USA is a smaller market for BTY Japan so options are limited for us. Makes me so mad I could eat fried chicken!
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