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poll: why do Chinese pros use tacky rubber?

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Poll Question: Why do Chinese pro players use a tacky rubber on forehand?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [9.09%]
33 [50.00%]
23 [34.85%]
4 [6.06%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by kurokami kurokami wrote:

p.s. somebody bought that used H3 Neo National from me on this forum. That was from Wang Liqin and handed to me out of his sports bag. It's only good for testing at this point as having only one guaranteed authentic sheet at the time, I really stretched out it's playing time. They could comment on how distinctively different it feels than commercial. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 12:07pm
I chose #3.  Having tacky rubber also allows them to pick up more speed on the close to table counter as they can cover the ball and convert the spin to speed.
 
Also, because they can read spin so well that they can get away with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stefashka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by TTFrenzy TTFrenzy wrote:

I think that if a junior player with 100%  the feeling and play of waldner starts executing the infamous tricky shots in a , he will be punished most likely because he didnt execute the strokes "by the book" no matter how effective his tricky shots are. 

I feel that the truth is even more on the sad side - poor fellas quickly learn that "tricky shots" are effective only in spectacular pairs and it's usually not where they are heading to. In real game, "tricky shots" get killed with almost no effort. 

Originally posted by TTFrenzy TTFrenzy wrote:

Ending, I  believe it is mostly a matter of technique not the rubbers. It is clear that in the short game and serving chinese rubbers are more easy to play, but adding more spin doesnt mean that you will win the point.

In the modern game, adding [top]spin primarily helps to land the ball onto the table (not necessarily bouncing past the opponent) and a point is won by those who land the ball just one more time than the opponent. So... Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 1:25pm
I voted for option 1 because I still think some players on the CNT would choose T05 for FH if there was no sponsorship. And they wouldn't have to deal with boosting.

I believe their technique is so good they can beat anybody with their boosted tacky rubber though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

I voted for option 1 because I still think some players on the CNT would choose T05 for FH if there was no sponsorship. And they wouldn't have to deal with boosting.

I believe their technique is so good they can beat anybody with their boosted tacky rubber though.

This is a myth, there are actually players on the CNT using Tenergy on the FH. 4x olympic gold medalist, Zhang Yi Ning to name one. 
IMO, boosted/glued tacky rubber is superior to Tenergy. However, I've tried tacky rubber boosted badly or matched with a bad blade. So you have to be willing to go through the boosting hassle, be able to afford all those sheets and experiments.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTFrenzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by stefashka stefashka wrote:

Originally posted by TTFrenzy TTFrenzy wrote:

I think that if a junior player with 100%  the feeling and play of waldner starts executing the infamous tricky shots in a , he will be punished most likely because he didnt execute the strokes "by the book" no matter how effective his tricky shots are. 

I feel that the truth is even more on the sad side - poor fellas quickly learn that "tricky shots" are effective only in spectacular pairs and it's usually not where they are heading to. In real game, "tricky shots" get killed with almost no effort. 

Originally posted by TTFrenzy TTFrenzy wrote:

Ending, I  believe it is mostly a matter of technique not the rubbers. It is clear that in the short game and serving chinese rubbers are more easy to play, but adding more spin doesnt mean that you will win the point.

In the modern game, adding [top]spin primarily helps to land the ball onto the table (not necessarily bouncing past the opponent) and a point is won by those who land the ball just one more time than the opponent. So... Wink




I was not referring to spectacular play obviously . Tricky shots are shots which are not on the book and cannot be categorized and learned. Ma lin Samsonov Schlager Kreanga Waldner had all very effective "tricky" shots which are not "by the book" and they are all tremendous players in terms of quality shots

I also wasnt referring to topspin I was referring to spin in general. You misunderstood my point here sorry. Spin alone doesnt mean anything to me

You need strategy footwork patience creativity quick adaptations to the game of your opponent, and all these factors have nothing to to with spin or rubbers. The best players who were or are the best its becuase they can combine all of these qualities with harmony.

I dont think waldner ryu ma lin and many others faced serious problems in their game because of the ball change or the unhidden service rule. So people should focus more on creating themselves as players and stop paying so much attention to equipment. 

Equipment is just a tool, if you dont know how to drive well you will look silly ridiculous and hilarious trying to own and drive a Ferrari or a Formula 1 race car :P

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Funahurnna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 10:54pm
I think I figured it out.


Now you know

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanMcg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 11:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/16/2013 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:


IMO, boosted/glued tacky rubber is superior to Tenergy.
Which tacky rubber and speed glued with what?
What makes a rubber superior?  What is superior to one person will not be the same for the next.
This is just an opinion but you could be more clear.  In what way is boosted/glued tacky rubber better than T05?

I have speed glued $16 IQUL.  It played well for a short time.  I doubt it was 'better' than T05.
I didn't like the fact that each time I speed glued the rubber it became heavier and speed gluing had to be done under a ventilation hood.  I could speed glue a DHS Neo rubber to see if it plays better.  I still have half the bottle of Dawei speed glue I bought last summer to test.


  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2013 at 4:40am
believe me, If any rubber/blade gave a noticeable advantage at the top level, they would all be using it, I don't care what nationality they are. 

quality rubber (any) + quality blade (any) + Booster (any) = the tools of the trade, its the player that counts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetstrike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2013 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

This is a myth, there are actually players on the CNT using Tenergy on the FH. 4x olympic gold medalist, Zhang Yi Ning to name one. 
IMO, boosted/glued tacky rubber is superior to Tenergy. However, I've tried tacky rubber boosted badly or matched with a bad blade. So you have to be willing to go through the boosting hassle, be able to afford all those sheets and experiments.

Its good to know that there are those players. I think Zhang Yining may still be sponsored by butterfly. Do you know who else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puppy412 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/17/2013 at 2:12pm
Chen Chien-an, yet another example of a chinese guy using tenergy fh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2018 at 5:15pm
Harimoto is tenergy both sides and has Chinese mother and father TT coaches. I am sure he was sponsored from a young age but still, Zhang Jike was butterfly sponsored and used H3 all the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chroot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2018 at 6:12pm
Would like to choose both #2 and #3 if possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2018 at 6:41pm
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Harimoto is tenergy both sides and has Chinese mother and father TT coaches. I am sure he was sponsored from a young age but still, Zhang Jike was butterfly sponsored and used H3 all the same.


Sure. That make sense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2018 at 7:29pm
 





Anyway, the point being, many of the CNT players use both euro and tacky.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chroot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2018 at 8:32pm
Remember read somewhere saying Tibhar Grip-S is a re-brand of Haifu Whale rubber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/20/2018 at 11:26pm
Actually, most of the time, it's because that's what they grew up playing with. Harimoto grew up in japan, and all the japanese kids use tenergy or other japanese rubbers. Chen chien an grew up in taiwan, and taiwanese players do not use hurricane. But anyway, the Chinese use hurricane because they believe that they can put more spin on the ball (in all departments, not just looping), and that's true, hence ITTF changing balls all the time to reduce spin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2018 at 12:57am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Harimoto is tenergy both sides and has Chinese mother and father TT coaches. I am sure he was sponsored from a young age but still, Zhang Jike was butterfly sponsored and used H3 all the same.


Wrong. Harimoto played with yasaka pryde when hewas around 11year old
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2018 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

, hence ITTF changing balls all the time to reduce spin. 
 
 ITTF is changing the ball parameters simply out of stupidity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2018 at 9:11pm
I think it really depends on the user, gamestyle and is very subjective...

People think that tacky rubbers are better for short game control, but Harimoto uses Tenergy and his short game is extremely good imo.... 

Some people think tacky rubbers are really good for close to table hard loops and other brush looping techniques, but Timo plays those easily with Tenergy too. 

Other people think tacky rubbers suck for BH because of the lack of power and catapult, but I feel a big part of why Ma Long got his Grand Slam is his decision (recommended by none other than LGL!) to switch to tacky rubber on the BH which allowed him a lot more control over his BH blocks and counters.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MLfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/21/2018 at 11:32pm
@blahness: Those are excellent points. However, I'd say the 3 people you mentioned are sort of like exceptions...i mean, tacky rubbers are inherently better for the short game, but that doesn't mean that one must play with tacky rubbers to have a good short game, right?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpungpeng Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2018 at 6:32am
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

I think it really depends on the user, gamestyle and is very subjective...

People think that tacky rubbers are better for short game control, but Harimoto uses Tenergy and his short game is extremely good imo.... 

Some people think tacky rubbers are really good for close to table hard loops and other brush looping techniques, but Timo plays those easily with Tenergy too. 

Other people think tacky rubbers suck for BH because of the lack of power and catapult, but I feel a big part of why Ma Long got his Grand Slam is his decision (recommended by none other than LGL!) to switch to tacky rubber on the BH which allowed him a lot more control over his BH blocks and counters.  

There was a recent interview with boll or ovtcharov saying the rackets of the chinese are way faster than theirs.
Euro players also boost of course.


Edited by pingpungpeng - 11/22/2018 at 6:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2018 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Originally posted by MLfan MLfan wrote:

, hence ITTF changing balls all the time to reduce spin. 
 
 ITTF is changing the ball parameters simply out of stupidity.

Hi,

Well, I would not take that position.  Knowing some inside contacts, I believe the best perspective on the ball alternation process is a recognition that the ITTF does nothing on the equipment side without extensive consultation with the equipment manufacturers.  The wishes of the equipment manufacturers are honored.

Intrinsic to this topic is the technology and materials considerations.  We see this before us with the collapse of the major ball manufacturers' early efforts with the seamless ball; a surrender to the prior paradigm of the seamed ball resulted.

I anticipate we are now close to the end of history.

Thanks, 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2018 at 12:46pm
Hi,

I mentioned this previously in another thread.  While at the Werner Schlager Academy, I ask one of the top Chinese coaches the perspective the team has on the comparison of Hurricane and Tenergy.  He said: "Hurricane, better offense; Tenergy, better defense."

Thanks,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FruitLoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2018 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

<font size="3" color="#0033ff">Hi,
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">I mentioned this previously in another thread.  While at the Werner Schlager Academy, I ask one of the top Chinese coaches the perspective the team has on the comparison of Hurricane and Tenergy.  He said: "Hurricane, better offense; Tenergy, better defense."
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">Thanks,


Wonder what he meant by that. Tenergy better for counter hitting?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2018 at 3:13am
Originally posted by FruitLoop FruitLoop wrote:

Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

<font size="3" color="#0033ff">Hi,
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">I mentioned this previously in another thread.  While at the Werner Schlager Academy, I ask one of the top Chinese coaches the perspective the team has on the comparison of Hurricane and Tenergy.  He said: "Hurricane, better offense; Tenergy, better defense."
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">
<font size="3" color="#0033ff">Thanks,


Wonder what he meant by that. Tenergy better for counter hitting?

He means that Tenergy has a better rebound, less stroke production needed to return incoming topspin. 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chroot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2018 at 1:05pm
Coach EmRatThick's video on Youtube explains the difference between Chinese tacky rubbers and Euro/Jap tensor rubbers.


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