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New Xiom Vega Blades |
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rusttt
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2014 Location: Danbury, CT Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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I really like the TG2 NEO. With that rubber I have the full range of shots from looping underspin to smashing anything that pops up and can even chop pretty well. h2 versus underspin has been a disaster for me. If I didn't engage the sponge it went in the net and if I did it often sailed off the table. I blame this on my game and not the rubber or blade, however when I switched the TG2 to the FH all my unforced errors went to the BH so the H2 had to go. I replaced H2 with H3-50 but haven't had a chance to play with it. |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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You meant Vega Pro blade matched well with TG2?
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rusttt
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2014 Location: Danbury, CT Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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Aroonkl, yes, that's what I meant. TG2 Neo and H3-50 is a good medium speed combination (for me) on the Vega Pro blade. I have excellent control (again for me) with that setup. Comparatively, the Hayabusa ZXi is faster and the Nittaku Basaltec Outer is slower. I know those aren't very common reference points but I haven't played with the Butterfly Ubiquity Collection (TB, IF, Viscaria) so it's all I can offer.
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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Thanks for info. Another question. Between Vega Pro or ZXI + TG2N, which one creates more spin in looping?
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t64t64t64
Silver Member Joined: 06/13/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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it is not the blade or the rubber who create spin or speed.
It is your HAND!!! |
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709
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t64t64t64
Silver Member Joined: 06/13/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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This forum is a tribute to Equipment,not to a table tennis....
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709
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mercuur
Super Member Joined: 01/06/2004 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Is it the carpenter hammering nails or the hammer ?
I never saw a carpenter hammering with his hand and never saw a hammer hammering nails by itself. But "this hammer hammers better then that one" (from a carpenter to another person, carpenter or not) implies a carpenter using a hammer as a tool. So what,s the problem then ? |
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rusttt
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2014 Location: Danbury, CT Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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I don't think there's much difference. If you forced me to pick I would say Vega Pro since I think it has a fraction more dwell time but I would pick based on desired speed first. |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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Cmon, Cut the BS. I give you D-Tec no sponge. Will you show me Spinny loops with your Magic HAND? Another one. You have a cardboard thin defender blade+ tackiness C. Show me the fast counter block or power loop kill. Simple Physics. Same swing speed. The one that restores energy and has high friction to release more spin = spinny combo. Same swing speed. The one that catapult/bounce back at high speed = high speed (fast) combo. Spin and speed mixes in ratio depend on how you hit or rub the balls.
Edited by aroonkl - 04/25/2014 at 4:41am |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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Sorry. I dont get your point.
Edited by aroonkl - 04/25/2014 at 2:17am |
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t64t64t64
Silver Member Joined: 06/13/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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imagine this situation,you make topspin and Xu xin make a topspin (same blade same rubbers) who will make better quality stroke :)
i hope now you get my point |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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I don't get your point. We are not talking about newbie's loops compare to skilled players' here. This is comparing equipment to equipment. It is about SAME HAND with skilled and what equipment yields better to suit their style. == XX loops with H3 is spinier than loops with Walmart paddle! == Try this. Go in all the Equipment threads here, I MEAN ALL, you can spoil the thread. BUMP in and say " It is the HAND, not equipment, that put speed/spin to the balls. All in technique, People. (Your guys are so unintelligent to ask info back and forth about equipment. I can't stand it.) You wont loop like XX even you have his equipment. ....." Wrong direction. Most players and eq junkies know this. Only a noob would think and assume as he gets the same eq as CNT and it will help him gain a lot to high level. This is my suggestion, please read the thread first before spoil it. Feel what they are talking about. This is the fact. If you think different, feel free to do. Player @2500 loops with Tenergy spinnier/faster than Mark V. Player @2000 loops with Tenergy spinnier/faster than Mark V. Player @1500 loops with Tenergy spinnier/faster than Mark V. So Tenergy is rated as spinier and faster than Mark V.
Edited by aroonkl - 04/25/2014 at 9:12pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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+1000. I sometimes get annoyed with statements like "throw is about the stroke, not the rubber" or "it is all in your technique" when comparing one rubber to another. It's one thing to say that someone cannot get the best out of a rubber, but another thing to say that one rubber is spinnier than another, even though that usually means that it makes you more spin susceptible when playing passively.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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mercuur
Super Member Joined: 01/06/2004 Status: Offline Points: 384 |
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Spinnier and speedier has a contradiction tough (in how the terms are commonly used) that can be confusing.
A speedier rubber helps preserve more speed (from opponent) for a passiv block while the bat angles the direction. Being passiv a player does nothing for this speed except holding the bat in front. So this has some logic to say it is faster even when the player does nothing. When Pushblocker blocks a ball like this with his long pips the rubber preserves a lot of spin just the same. So obviously his long pips are much spinnier then Tenergy or his fh rubber..... Edited by mercuur - 04/26/2014 at 5:27am |
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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TT Aesop's Fable. (Just for fun. Don't get offend please.) There were two TT enthusiasts talking at the corner of a gym. Player A: I can't stand T64 on BH. It feels too soft. Player B: No, no man..you are wrong. T64 is good for BH. It bites the balls well. Opposite, I don't like T05. Player B: BTW. The last National Blue sponge H3 I ordered. Instead of 41 degrees, they sent me 40'. That's mushy. I am returning them. My loops loss some kick. Player A: 40' seems fine to me. 41' is too much. Guru overheard them as walking pass-by . He seemed little annoyed and wanted to shine the light to these lost players. Guru: What are your guys talking about ? Problem is not in T05 or T64. And man oh man, I can't believe that you play with the best of H3 rubber there is. Still you complain about little different in Hardness. It is YOU who do not own proper technique. Everything is your hand to generate spin/speed. Stop mumbling about equipment ! As Guru walked away, FZD & ZJK looked at each other, speechless.
Edited by aroonkl - 04/26/2014 at 6:46am |
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vvk1
Gold Member Joined: 11/14/2009 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
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Just curious, is anyone who bought the new Vega Pro blade still playing with it?
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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I'm testing the Vega Pro blade right now. I like it better than the Hayabusa series.
For me this blade is an excellent mix between the Maze and the Mizutani. Speed, control and hardness is just in between both Butterfly blades. For me the Maze is sometimes too soft anf too slow while the Mizutani can be too hard and too fast. The Vega Pro is not too hard and has always enough power. The Vega Pro is quite stiff, at least as stiff as Mizutani. I found it better in blocking and flat hitting than both Butterfly blades. On the other hand I've found it less spinny than both Butterfly blades but still very good for looping especially because of the higher throw. I need to test it a bit more but it could be my next blade replacing the Mizutani. Unless I find the Mizutani SZLC even better :) |
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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vvk1
Gold Member Joined: 11/14/2009 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1925 |
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Interesting. Faster than Maze, slower than Mizutani, medium hardness. Are you saying that Vega Pro is a Viscaria clone?
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rusttt
Super Member Joined: 03/16/2014 Location: Danbury, CT Status: Offline Points: 112 |
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I switched mine from H3-50 and TG2Neo to Omega Tour V and Rakza 7 Soft. Compared to the TB ALC (closest I have to Viscaria) I think the Vega Pro is easier to play in the short game and offers a little more spin/dwell. For power shots it's very close - maybe a slight edge to the ALC, but I don't think you'll feel short on power with the VP.
I can switch between these blades with just some quick practice to dial in the touch shot differences.
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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No I wouldn't say so because: 1. Mizutani, Maze and VP all have limba outers which gives them similar feel. That's why I made this comparison. The Viscaria has koto outers which gives it a very different feel. Because of the ALC Viscaria is quite close to Maze but has not much to do with the Veg Pro. 2. The Viscaria's speed, hardness and flex is quite close to the Maze while the Vega Pro's speed, hardness and flex qui quite close to the Mizutani. |
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Thanks ttping85.
What are the dimensions of the blade? Is it large like Innerforce / Hayabusa or is it like a TB-ALC?
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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It's large like innerforce/hayabusa 152mm but it's same length as TB ALC 157mm while innerforce/hayabusa is 158mm I think.
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Thanks!
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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ttping85: you mentioned that this blade lies in between Maze and Mizutani (two composite blades with limba outers).
How does it compare with the Acoustic Carbon (another similar type blade)?
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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ttping85
Gold Member Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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I found it much easier to loop against underspin and generally to generate spin. Also the throw is much higher. I really like the Acoustic carbon on my backhand but not on my forehand because of the lower throw. Acoustic Carbon has more control than the Vega Pro but is less fast and powerful. I would say the AC lies between the Maze and the Vega Pro but being closer to the Maze in terms of speed and control. But the feeling of the Acoustic carbon is very different from the other blades. Maybe because it's simple carbon and not combined with another artificial fiber.
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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From what I understand, by reading the posts. The Vega Blades are the equivalent of the SLZC series of BTY?
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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Doesn't the MJ SLZC have like a 3/4 size of a sweet spot, compared to the smaller sweet spot of MJ ZLC (1/2?). So the SZLC is the equivalent of the Vega blades at a cheaper price? :)
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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t64t64t64
Silver Member Joined: 06/13/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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if you want equivalent of SZCL ,Donic 89 series are equivalent!
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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Thanks, but I'm trying to find out if the Vega Series Blade is the Xiom equivalent of the BTY ZLC or event the SZLC series of BTY. :)
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Yes! the Xiom Vega Pro blade is the equivalent of the MJ-SZLC. Given below, is their marketing spiel: see the part in bold (emphasis mine). Note that Zylon & Zephyllium mean the same thing (thermoset liquid crystalline polyoxazole) & are just different trademarked names.
Personally, I prefer the feel of this blade more than that of the MJ SZLC. However, there are differences: 1. XVP is easier to generate spin with close to the table. At the table or 1-2 steps away, the XVP is the best blade I've played with in terms of power, ball bite & control. Here, it is faster than the Viscaria & much easier to control with. 2. Away from the table (more than 2 steps), the XVP is slower than Viscaria, MJ or SZLC. The SZLC is just way too fast, IMHO. 3. XVP is available at much lighter weights (I have a 80g ST!). I have not heard of a MJ SZLC under 88g yet. 4. If you don't sand your XVP (with the included sander), you will get blisters! Xiom claims that this is because they use very old trees to get wood that gives better feel. 5. I'm not sure, if, by 'natural glue' Xiom means hide glue (see below). But I can confirm that the feel is fantastic. 6. Rubber compatibility: IMHO, MJ SZLC is compatible with 45 degrees and lower hardness. XVP works best with 42.5 degrees and higher hardness. If using Chinese rubbers, you shall have to boost. By the way, PM me if you want a great deal on a 99% new XVP blade. Xiom's marketing literature on the blade: VEGA PRO Structure: 5 Wood Ply + 2 Composite (Zephylium & X-Carbon) Character: OFF ~ OFF+ Grips Available: FL, ST Origin: Made in Korea What is special? Zephylium & X-Carbon Different from typical Zylon, as Zylon is 3k in thickness while Zephylium is 1k Different from typical Carbon, as many uses 6k and 3k in thickness while X-Carbon is 1k. Composition that we use is about 2~4 times more expensive than typical composition. We have used these compositions to lower the weight and also to increase the feeling of the blade. If the carbon or zylon are too thick or heavy, it will interfere with the feeling of the blade. But therefore we use only 1k (despite the price) in order to bring the best of the composite blade (Currently only blades that uses these compositions are Hayabusa, BT Super Zhang Jike, and Vega) Jointless Wood Usually, when many manufacturing companies produce blades, they use two veneer and joint them together to make one piece of veneer. For example, Rosewood wood is very difficult to find one single piece wood for the blade. Therefore many companies uses two veneer to join them into one to make it one piece for the surface veneer. Also if you open up the blades and look at each veneer, you can see that most of them are jointed. But if you look at our blade, all our layer of veneer are jointless woods. What is so good about jointless woods? Think about wearing a shoe that is cut in half and glued back together. How would this feel ? This applies same as the blades, if you use jointless wood, it will increase the performance and stability of the blade. Why doesn't other manufacturing companies use jointless wood. Because it is expensive and hard to get. Usually in order to make jointless blade, it will require 100~300year old wood to be used. But as you know the thicker and older the wood it is the more expensive it is. (Because the wood is old, the wood grain on the surface might feel bit more rough than other blades. This is same as people, If we get older we get more winkles, same applies for the wood, the wood is older and the winkles are something we cannot get rid of) Glue Natural Glue is used to make this blade in order to maximize control and catching of the ball while impact. Most of the blades are produced by using epoxy glue, in order to increase production. Epoxy glue dries up much faster than any other glue, and it is well used for mass production. (Usually uses hot press to increase productivity) However, the epoxy glue forms a thin layer of glue while drying up between the veneer that blocks the smooth feeling of the blade and also increases hardness of blade. This is not good for the professional players which requires better control and catch. Natural Glue is highly not the favourable way for the most of manufacturing company due to fact that it needs long time to dry up. However, we have separte drying storage made for only Vega series which helps to dry naturally. And when it is dried up naturally, the glue will eventually evaporate and absorbed into the wood, leaving absolutely no layer of any glue between the veneer. THIL & Made in Korea THIL is our quality control. Wood is breathing thing that changes easily according to the surrounding environment. Therefore Temperature, Humidity, Insect, and Light are very important to the wood managment. Our factory in Korea is THIL controlled factory to make sure that at point of production the wood is at their best shape. Made in Korea. In order to make one blade, it must go through 20 different types of machines. 20?? Yes! about twice or three times more machines that is required to make a blade. We use 20 different machine in order to make sure the quality of the blade are all same at all time. T-FOIL The blade comes with the T-foil attached, in order to reuse them for maintenance of rubber and blade. Edited by slevin - 08/27/2014 at 9:31am |
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