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Intermediate Player Dilemma! |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Posted: 03/08/2014 at 10:07pm |
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Should an intermediate player use a racket that fits strengths or one that helps improve weaknesses?
For example:
I hit, punch block, and drive with a pinch of topspin pretty well. However, I cannot do a pure loop or brush loop to save myself. Do you think it's best that I equip myself with a hard, stiff blade and short pips and forget my weaknesses, or buy a softer, flexy blade and some spinney rubbers to help me develop my weaknesses? *I'm sure this is a question many mid-level players consider or ignore. I direct this at intermediate level because beginners need more rounded rackets and advanced players probably have already committed to one thing or another to play at a high level . . . not easy for them to experiment too much and win matches against top players. Edited by tommyzai - 03/08/2014 at 10:09pm |
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tuco
Gold Member Joined: 06/11/2007 Location: ValleyOfTheSun Status: Offline Points: 1432 |
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yes
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The Dark Side is:
"Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda |
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sticharo
Super Member Joined: 12/29/2010 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 420 |
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Yup. Been thru the same thought process. I'm sure it sounds odd to some that looping doesn't come naturally to me. I've worked at it...I'm getting better.
I've used SP. I currently use inverted FH along with LP OX on the BH. I may return to SP. I use the inverted to block and introduce spin (if necessary) during a rally. Short pips is another kettle of fish. Yes, you can play without looping. And if you play at the table and you're prepared (and quick enough) to take most balls close to off the bounce then it could work for you. That said.... assuming your goal isn't playing in any world champion type setting...I'd say go with your predispositions. I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't think of your inability to loop as a weakness. What can you do to maximize your strengths? Generally speaking....looping isn't an equipment issue...it's a technique issue. Edited by sticharo - 03/08/2014 at 10:44pm |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Ditto tuco. That's what I did as a kid but it was a penhold combination setup with Inverted on forehand and Shortpips on backhand of a thick carbon blade. Looping is an advanced skill that takes a whole lot of learning and training.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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Simple, use your current setup that you're comfortable with AND get some coaching.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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Pongz
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 376 |
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or i suggest you go with equipment in between..
Korbel, Korbel Speed, Tibhar power stratus.. they are known to 5ply but not so flexy.. or dhs pg13, yasaka extra special or any thin 7ply.. In my own experience, i have the best of both worlds... using korbel speed 96gr.. koto outer plies helps in smashing n blocking and the weight stablise the block.. the block is as good or even better imho to 7ply blades i have tried.. I use dhs skyline 3 n hurricane 3.. the weight is ~200gr but balanced so not feel heavy at all.. cheers |
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Butterfly Sardius
FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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I know a beginner (<6 months) who can do advanced brush looping. I know an experience player (10+years) with coaching galore who cannot brush loop with any consistency (me).
Edited by tommyzai - 03/08/2014 at 10:49pm |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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+1 Play your game. Not having a short game is a weakness. Being bad in service return is a weakness. Not having a good loop I'd only call a limitation. And practically a non factor if you're playing short pips. Still not sure if you're a SP player or not. What do you love more? I think that's the question. If you love looping and wish you could do that more often, then work on it. If you love the quick reaction, close to the table speed game, then don't worry about it. Edited by suds79 - 03/08/2014 at 10:50pm |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Yeah I actually don't think looping is an advanced technique. Just takes a little practice and some athleticism doesn't hurt either ;) |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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In my case, I play better against higher level players than good basement players or athletic beginners. WHY? They can also play a good up-close, fast game of hitting off-the-bounce and are not bothered by my LP. They keep up in a rally. If I were able to spin-off a big loop they would not be in the game.
Edited by tommyzai - 03/08/2014 at 11:16pm |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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At intermediate level performing all strokes well is a big advantage over just one strong stroke.
Learning to loop is a technique issue not so much equipment but do find that a flexy blade and spinny rubbers help a little. |
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Wood Paddle
Red side Black side. |
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tt4me
Gold Member Joined: 01/17/2013 Location: RC Poverty Zone Status: Offline Points: 1019 |
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What is wrong with SP?
I put 802 2.0mm on the c-pen YEO I bought from you. It works well. There is another at the club that is better than I am that plays c-pen with 1.5m 802. Playing with LPs is an art. I too have found that players at my level will generally just try to get the ball back until one of us misses. I have found there are only two solutions. One is to be fast enough to attack with the FH and the other is too twiddle and catch them off guard. I prefer to twiddle because it takes less effort. If you are playing with LP then learn to twiddle so you can attack those balls that are just bounced back without spin. |
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jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
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John MacEnroe from Tennis said - if he had to do it all again - he would focus on improving his strengths. I say go with the short pips and maximize your strengths....if that doesn't work, do the other thing!
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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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Taking some of spin out of the equation by using SP has pros and cons. I have tried SPs many, many times, but cannot get used to the time and flat hitting. I also don't like the straight trajectory of the ball, which often sails long. I realize SPs are capable of spin, but sadly my mechanics are not strong enough to create even the smallest arc to help land the ball on the table. So, I pull off the SP, slap the inverted on and keep trying to generate more spin. I get the ball bending enough to roll over the net and drop onto the table; however, I do not generate enough spin to bother my opponent . . . probably just help him/her tee off. Ohhh, the dilemma.
Edited by tommyzai - 03/09/2014 at 3:17am |
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bluebucket
Platinum Member Joined: 02/20/2011 Location: 16 Status: Offline Points: 2882 |
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Stiff medium speed blade, spinny inverted on backhand, punch with it in front of your body like a girl. Then hit with 802/spectol/ on the forehand. It'll suit you just fine and cause major problems for everyone else. This might be hard to explain but the punching shot you hit from the backhand wants to have some variations of curve on it. You should be able to curve the ball either way quite easily with that stroke
Edited by bluebucket - 03/09/2014 at 1:18am |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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You see why I said "a whole lot of learning...", just as the saying goes "some people will never learn." |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
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If you want to get used to loop brushing and turn it into dynamic stereotype, use a returnboard.
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BRS
Gold Member Joined: 05/08/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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How old are you? Can you bend your knees 100s of times in a day of playing? A guy I play with wants to loop, but he is tall and old and can't bend his knees. He switches equipment every so often but it never makes loops from his straight-up stance.
OP is the Unstoppable EJ Madman so you must have tried T05. Can you loop with tenergy? If not, an equipment change probably won't fix your loop. If you just want to loop for the fun of it and not to win more points, then do it anyway. If you want to win more then develop your stengths, even if that is hitting or LP. |
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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... and, in case it doesn't work for you that way, you can always play with the spinny side on forehand.
Edited by JacekGM - 03/09/2014 at 9:41am |
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4952 |
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Unfortunately, it's so true. Some bad habits are ingrained and cannot be unlearned. |
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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piligrim
Premier Member Joined: 06/21/2011 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
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change coach |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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You probably don't realize that I have a physical disability . . . It is very difficult for me to do the proper stroke with any consistency. I know how to do it and can teach it, but not physically able without using the "wrong" muscles to hoist my arm. I've had some really good coaches. They taught me how . . . just can't do it well. That's where my dilemma is . . . should I try to compensate by using gear that helps me create more spin or try to take spin out of the equation?
Edited by tommyzai - 03/09/2014 at 1:03pm |
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boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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ok so you want to loop but have some kind of pain holding you back. you dont know what to focus on, ie flat hitting or topspin. in my opinion why dont you do both flat hit on the backhand with pips and loop on the forehand with inverted, this will give a little more varieties to your game. you can punch through a serve with pips then proceed to smash it if the return is high which it most likely will if your opponent cant handle pips, also you can counter brush loop far away from the table with FH to save the point if you ever get caught off guard ie. a defensive saving loop. if you happen to not like it then you can try the other way around pips on FH and inverted on BH and do BH loop instead which is easier, but less powerful. i think this setup will suit you better because it doesn't required you to move as much since your a blocker. imo equipment makes up for what you lack technique wise, if you have a disabilities that prevent you from twist and turning use equipment to give yourself an edge. nothing shameful in that. just have fun. but if you dont have any pain try to practice the right way to do it, repetitive loop drill is the way either against machine or multiball doesn't matter as for what equipment to use that's up to you |
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butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
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puppy412
Silver Member Joined: 03/25/2013 Location: houston Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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being an old member who stood the test of time in this forum you probably have been advised time and time again to use slow blade and slow rubber.
if I were you for a change I would try: off+ blade from butterfly (primorac carbon/amultart/photino come to mind) paired with tenergy 05 rubbers. I have been using tenergy25/amultart/tenergy05 for some months and really love it. |
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boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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^^^ this every time i ask for some advice to change my set up there will be at least one person who would tell me to stick with my slower setup haha the thing is you never know if it fits you or not if you dont try it out yourself, other people opinion and experience will only help so much |
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butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
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puppy412
Silver Member Joined: 03/25/2013 Location: houston Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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equipment doesn't fit you or not. you have to modify your technique to fit the equipment you are using. at some point last year I was using an off 5-ply with untuned h3neo(fh) and short pips(bh). I was using a technique that suited this equipment. then one day i started using the amultart with both tenergies. I had to change my technique significantly, but I didn't say "this doesn't suit me". I said "this is different equipment, I need to change the way I hit the ball". and I did. |
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Surgeon
Beginner Joined: 05/23/2013 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Are there any pros or high level amateurs who primarily punch block?
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boaspirit
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2013 Location: usa md Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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ai fukuhara punch through the ball with her backhand almost every point not punch block more like flat hitting her BH rubbers are pips |
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butterfly Timo Boll spirit
FH TG3NEO BH vega Pro |
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tommyzai
Premier Member Senior Animator Joined: 02/17/2007 Location: Tucson AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 9289 |
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I'm intrigued by the idea of using a fast, spinny inverted rubber on my BH to help me develop a loop there and using pips of some kind on my FH for flat kills and hitting through spin. Hmmmmm. It's kind of the opposite of what most combo players do, but whatever works, right?
I'm open for andy and all suggestions. Anyone else have or had a similar dilemma? I guess the bigger, clearer questions is this . . . Do you find equipment that suits the way you play or do find equipment and adjust?
Edited by tommyzai - 03/10/2014 at 1:28am |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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Talk to AcudaDave - he can tell you all about it.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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