Rate those players - USATT

Yeah, it´s really hard to tell...because the TTR and the USATT himself fluctuates much...

Edited by Topspin_Tim - 04/24/2014 at 8:40am

Pushblocker wrote: The german rating really is not compareable with the US Rating. My understanding is that approx. 1700 german rating is about 2000 US Rating. 1975 german rating is easily 2275 US rating. If you add about 300 - 400 points to the german rating, it is approx. the US Rating.. This is a comparison as of 2011 TTR vs. USATT Ratings Aleksandar Karakasevic 2500 | 2850 Thomas Keinath 2420 | 2800 Lucian Blaszczyk 2500 | 2800 Joerg Rosskopf 2400 | 2730 Patrick Baum 2450 | 2730 Steffen Mengel 2350 | 2720 Stefan Feth 2275 | 2700 Andreas Ball 2130 | 2675 Tanja Hain-Hofman 2100 | 2500 Franz-Josef Huermann 1870 | 2230 Sebastian Lenzen 2050 | 2230 Thorsten Esch 1700 | 2140 Andreas Hain 1800 | 2130 Fabian Schulenburg 1800 | 2120 Markus Kirsten 1650 | 2100 Volker Schoeppe 1550 | 2070 Michael Backes 1600 | 1900 -->  Using that comparison the approx. rating of the players would be: (and I'm only using the lower end of 300 points difference as in real life, it often varies over 400 points.. Red Nr. 1: 1861 TTR  2161+ USATT Blue Nr. 1: 1975 TTR 2275+ USATT The lefty and his opponent are playing in the 2. "paarkreuz".  Red Nr. 2: 1775 TTR 2075+ USATT Blue Nr. 2:  1826 TTR 2126+ USATT

ghostzen wrote: benfb wrote: I realize this is getting off-topic, but I found the PB-Ciz video more interesting than the original video of German players.  What struck me was that for all his power, Ciz didn't play very smart.  PB played a much more strategic match and that's how he won.  Well, it looks like it was just a fun match, so perhaps Ciz will put more thought into it the next time they meet in a tournament.   Sorry for the off-topic   I think Ciz thought it would be very easy and played the serve and kill plan "A game" and after the first game where PB looked canon fodder he stopped making the high risk shots on the table had a bit of a ... what to do now moment?  Panic! didn't think I would need a "Plan B". After that the match changed and the tighter the match got the more tighter Ciz got and the more PB was up for it.

I realized that he was very effective when he was in place for his shot but when I made him move, his unforced errors would go up when trying to kill the ball so he eventually started playing more conservative, opening up instead of killing the ball. That allows me to take control of the game as I need that spinny open up shot so that I can get underspin, forcing him to push. Once he starts giving me that first push, I can use the angles and my pressure push (aka druckschlupf in german) to control the table and force him into mistakes.

Topspin_Tim wrote: If I post the German TTR for those guys, some of you will really be surprised.  The first two players are normally really good blockers, thats why the game looks not as good as the second. These players are playing in the 1. "paarkreuz".  Red Nr. 1: 1861 TTR Blue Nr. 1: 1975 TTR The lefty and his opponent are playing in the 2. "paarkreuz".  Red Nr. 2: 1775 TTR<span ="apple-tab-span"="" style="white-space:pre">     </span> Blue Nr. 2:  1826 TTR Do you want more German League Videos to guess on?

Very interesting and deceiving with how their games look on video. I think most of us place way too much emphasis on how pretty the technique of the player is.

Pushblocker wrote: LUCKYLOOP wrote: That was a good match .... PB covers his 4H corner with that block a lot better than most players anticipate He kicked my butt in game 1 when I realized what was happening.. He was anticipating perfectly where I would put the ball and could go for the kill. All that I did was to try to be more unpredictable and make him move and force him to open up with spin instead of going for the kill shot. The moment I got him to open up instead of finishing the point, I took over control of the match. Strategically, this was one of my best matches ever..

very nice and consistent BH blocking PB, a very good player like him was really struggling with your blocking after game 1, man, what a match. HE was so pissed on not being able to return those seemingly simple blockings, I swear this is one of the most frustrating feelings when you just can't use more than 40% of the skills you have acquired thru all your trainings and learnings. I woulda smashed my bat if I was playing with your blocking returns... XD

what was the red rubber you were using? looks like a very deceptive pip with huge spin-reverse blocking. I would like to try it too.

benfb wrote: I realize this is getting off-topic, but I found the PB-Ciz video more interesting than the original video of German players.  What struck me was that for all his power, Ciz didn't play very smart.  PB played a much more strategic match and that's how he won.  Well, it looks like it was just a fun match, so perhaps Ciz will put more thought into it the next time they meet in a tournament.

lol thanks for trying to reassure me. I start to think I know what I'm talking about, and somebody credible says something that makes me feel dumb. 

larrytt wrote: Topspin_Tim wrote: Can you rate those players for me? From 0.00 - 8.00  Lets say.  Red 1 0.00 - 3.40 Red 2 3.41 - 8.00 Blue 1 0.00 - 3.40 Blue 2 3.41 - 8.00 Thanks! I only watched the first two players. Both are 1800-2000 maximum. They are way too soft and slow, and make way too many mistakes, for anything beyond that.  -Larry Hodges

Edited by beeray1 - 04/24/2014 at 1:40am

top spin tim

post some more of these if you get the opportunity.  

thanks

regards
rick

LUCKYLOOP wrote: That was a good match .... PB covers his 4H corner with that block a lot better than most players anticipate

He kicked my butt in game 1 when I realized what was happening.. He was anticipating perfectly where I would put the ball and could go for the kill. All that I did was to try to be more unpredictable and make him move and force him to open up with spin instead of going for the kill shot. The moment I got him to open up instead of finishing the point, I took over control of the match. Strategically, this was one of my best matches ever..

Pushblocker wrote

Being a born European and having played league in Vienna/Austria for 3 years, I can tell you that it is a lot about perception. The European style LOOKS stronger as they make less unforced errors but that's due to them playing mid distance and not close to the table..

My opponent in this game is a Czech player who used to play at a very high league in the Czech Republic before he came to the US and he is a solid 2300 level player. None of the players in the video would beat him.. He is also 3 times Florida State Champion (and current state champion).. WOW - I was really fat back then..

LUCKYLOOP wrote

That was a good match .... PB covers his 4H corner with that block a lot better than most players anticipate

Pushblocker wrote: The European style generally looks stronger than the more common style in the US. Europeans tend to go back more into mid distance while the dominant style in the US is closer to the table.

I like watching their matches for this reason.  I used to watch a lot of 2nd level German league matches on a German website but I can't remember the web address any longer.  If anyone knows it I'd like to watch some more.  The 2nd level players looked like they could be most any US player.

ByeByeAbout wrote: berkeleydoctor wrote: i have to disagree completely.... but why even, trolls gonna troll the first two players are between 1700-2000 USATT the rest of the players are between 1900-2200 USATT not sure about this rating out of 8 thing, but if you assume 2300 is 8 and 1700 is 0 then you can extrapolate from there i guess? these guys are *much* better than the three guys pb posted who were all around 2100.  those three guys (sorry chopper) would not stand any chance against any of the four guys just posted. equating giving an opinion about someones rating with "trolling" can be considered hyperbole, fwiw regards rick

Being a born European and having played league in Vienna/Austria for 3 years, I can tell you that it is a lot about perception. The European style LOOKS stronger as they make less unforced errors but that's due to them playing mid distance and not close to the table..

My opponent in this game is a Czech player who used to play at a very high league in the Czech Republic before he came to the US and he is a solid 2300 level player. None of the players in the video would beat him.. He is also 3 times Florida State Champion (and current state champion).. WOW - I was really fat back then..



Edited by Pushblocker - 04/23/2014 at 11:32pm

Blue 1, 2200, Red 1 2150
Blue 2, 2200, Red 2 2200

I have a unfair advantage rating them as it says Verbandsliga and the level in Verbandsliga (at least those who have competed in the USA) ranges from 2050 to 2300 even though sometimes, stronger players who usually play in higher leagues play the lower league to help one of their teams. Verbandsliga averages generally in the 2100's with the better players exceeding 2200 and up to 2300. Those players all seem to be pretty good for Verbandsliga. This is also confirmed by a german friend of mine who used to play Verbandsliga in Germany before he moved to Florida.

The European style generally looks stronger than the more common style in the US. Europeans tend to go back more into mid distance while the dominant style in the US is closer to the table. Closer to the table is more prone to mistakes but gives the opponent less time. The mid distance style will always look more consistent and "correct" which does not necessarily mean that it is stronger. Like I said, based on many germans who played tournaments in the US, it's safe to say that the general level of Verbandslige ranges from mid to high 2000's to about 2300 with a few exceptions on top and bottom.

Edited by Pushblocker - 04/23/2014 at 11:27pm

blitzen wrote: Come on guys. Those numbers 0.00 - 8.00, etc. have nothing to do with ratings. Those are timings for the video. Those are the times when new play starts. These players look under 2000 to me, possibly 1800 - 2000.