Types of Spin and serve returns

I was reading Larry's book and it said there are 27 different combinations !! 

Can you name them all? If not larry can you help?

 

Hope the post gets some traction so we have a good database of knowledge 

If you can leave out corkscrew then there are only nine variations to contend with.  Straight under, top, and no-spin, and left or right side, side-top, and side-under.  Unfortunately that is still eight combinations too many for me to process in the instant that is available to a receiver.   

thanks for explaining corkscrew can it be countercorkscrew as well?

what effect does it have on the paddle as in does the ball pop up or die down?

Are there certain racket angles or wrist movements you look for?

I use corkscrew serves and they are effective. The reason they are effective, if done right, is the ball jumps laterally across the table(right to left from receivers perspective) and this makes it difficult determine where/when to contact the ball. Another reason is that most receivers think that the ball has side spin when it actually has more of a topspin component so they tend hit it off the table. The serve is really effective if you can place into the decision point of the receiver. I actually get a fair amount of whiffs with some players because they line up on the ball with the expectation that the ball is going to be at a certain place after the bounce, then it jumps to their left as they swing and miss the ball all together. 

Here is the serve- He calls it a side back serve. Notice all the ball go off the left side of the table and not the end line. 

I am only aware of backspin, topspin, no-spin, backspin-sidespin x2 (spinning to either side), and topspin-sidespin x2 (again spinning to either side). That makes 7. 

It can be called this but you come more under the ball going right to left and slightly up the left side of the ball. That puts a top spin component on the ball  but the spin is aimed towards the right side of the table(servers perspective). Basically if you see your serve jump more to the side after the second bounce then that's it. The next step is to try to get it to jump more. 

What would you call that then when the ball is spinning in that manner? It's different from sidespin.

It makes sense to give it a name. People largely refer to that as corkscrew. 

IMO it's a type of spin.

Those are some good serves.  I wish I could keep them consistently short like that.  But to me those are just plain old side-under and side-top serves.  When I think of a corkscrew serve I think of something different, i.e. a serve that seems to change direction in an odd way.  I have seen Xu Xin use this type of serve, and I've played around with it a bit myself as a forehand serve.  What I do is start the serve motion with the top of the paddle higher than the handle and then do a sort of quick twisting motion such that I follow through on the serve with a normal pendulum motion where the top of the paddle is below the handle.  The effect is that the serve looks like an underspin or nospin serve, but if done properly the ball will take an odd jump sideways when it bounces on the opponent's side of the table.

 

What is the spin on a ball that is travelling towards you but spinning around that axis through the ball facing you (the spin is not in the direction the ball is travelling)?

 

Actually, maybe there is such a thing.  Think of it this way...

Underspin - ball is spinning on horizontal axis that is parallel to the end of the table, and rotation direction is going back towards server.

Topspin - ball is spinning on horizontal axis that is parallel to the end of the table, and rotation direction is going away from server.

Sidespin - ball is spinning on a vertical axis and rotation direction is going either left or right.

Corkscrew spin - ball is spinning on a horizontal axis that is *perpendicular* to the end of the table, and rotation direction is either left or right.

So, that fits the serve I described earlier, i.e. the server pushes the ball toward the other side of the table but the spin on the ball is rotating sideways on a horizontal axis relative to the server as much as possible.

We're not talking about trajectory. We're talking about the way the ball is spinning.

You cannot watch the killerspin video posted above and dispute that the ball is spinning differently in the sidespin vs corkscrew. They each have their own flight paths, reaction off the bounce of the table and reaction off the opponents paddle.

Lastly, whether you want to admit corkscrew is a spin or not really doesn't matter. It's just terminology. There's a large portion of players who use the term. So if someone says that serve or that lob had corkscrew on it, we all know what he means. By that measure, it is good to be familiar with what it is and how it reacts IMO.

But it is sidespin. 

That is correct! But it's been pointed out that while you can have 27 types of spin when serving in theory, in practice some of them are impossible to actually do as it would be impossible to spin the ball in certain directions and still get the ball to move forward. For example, in practice you can't really do a pure corkscrewspin as to do would mean there would be no forward motion of your racket. So a corkscrewspin is always combined with some other spin. (When I serve corkscrewspin, I consciously decide between combining it with sidespin, backspin, or topspin. I can demonstrate in person.) I think I'll blog about the various types of spin next week. 

-Larry Hodges