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New nittaku 40+ Plastic Ball

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:21am
Since these balls are heavier does it mean you can really give someone a good "welt" when you hit their arm or leg with it by mistake? I used to practice with a mid 2200 player that really smacked the ball...and after every session I would always have 2 or 3 good welts on my legs from some of his smashes that missed the table. Maybe you'll really feel it now when you take a good shot on the leg. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 11:00am

DOUBLE POSTING, SORRY.

Edited by igorponger - 06/17/2014 at 11:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 11:01am
Friends,

Don"t get in panic, the stone dead balls will not stay in play for long. Yes.





... The relaxed approval is valid until January 2016. At this date, after all developments is completed, the original specifications will apply.


Hence, Nittaku shall take up a serious revision of their "stony" balls , so as to make the product some lighter and flexible.. The revision has to be no later than by the end of 2015.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DistantStar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 11:21am
What I think will happen with this new ball:

1. Lower arch on loops because heavier ball is less sensitive to aerodynamics... Also, no dramatic Maze style side spins... Dislike!

2. Heavier weight will speed up the ball, thus reduce rally. Dislike!

3. With higher speed, close to table defense got a bit more difficult. Less reaction time. Neutral

4. No spin loss over distance will gave mid table loop a boost. like!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Friends,

Don"t get in panic, the stone dead balls will not stay in play for long. Yes.





... The relaxed approval is valid until January 2016. At this date, after all developments is completed, the original specifications will apply.


Hence, Nittaku shall take up a serious revision of their "stony" balls , so as to make the product some lighter and flexible.. The revision has to be no later than by the end of 2015.

Per Hodges contention that the USATT will use this ball for coming ITTF tournaments puts players and coaches in a difficult situation if the ball will have a different dynamic in Jan 2016 then 2015 or late 2014.  I do like the concept of low breakage which would be a big help to many clubs but if a club goes out and buys large number of these balls in early 2015 or late 2014 and then replace them in early 2016 will be very costly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 12:39pm
Good find, Igor.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by reflecx reflecx wrote:

Larry Hodges had a lot to say about this ball in his blog

http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1848



Thanks, interesting observations from Larry H 

+1! Stop speculating dudes, get some real information from larry. Very detailed, thanks Larry! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 3:16pm

So many changes over the years. What's next pink tutu's and you must win by 5? The suckometer is getting on the high side. I will lose my sidespin loop from what I am reading here. I'm not generally a negative person but this "new" ball sounds horrid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 3:30pm
As an inveterate hook looper, this will be interesting... To be a parrot of myself, I just want a consistent ball that works with Tenergy 05... (okay, that last part was new....)


Will T05 be as high throw with the new ball? Questions...
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DistantStar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/17/2014 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

As an inveterate hook looper, this will be interesting... To be a parrot of myself, I just want a consistent ball that works with Tenergy 05... (okay, that last part was new....)


Will T05 be as high throw with the new ball? Questions...


From pure physics perspective, the balls will have LOWER throw across the board. Spin will have less effect on something that's heavier.

For similar reasons, heavier (more mass) require more force to accelerate, hence lower arc 

But then I dont have the ball so I can only speculate

Edited by DistantStar - 06/17/2014 at 3:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 6:35am
   Can anyone render this chinese exerption into English?

Human translator needed, not robotic.

Thanks..




  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

------------------
Full article original location

http://sz.happypingpang.cn/news/view/6635/dd4e8f2adefe1ec3b1081470f10f8afa4efa8231

Edited by igorponger - 06/18/2014 at 6:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nachalnik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 3:42pm

There's a very good comprehensive review of the ball on the ooak forum by bogehunter.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donn Olsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 9:10pm
I have two observations about the Nittaku Poly Ball review:

1) I think it is very unlikely it will be the tournament ball for the U.S. Nationals.  Because the celluloid ball is still legal, and everybody has them, and recognizing that inertia is the strongest force in the universe, I anticipate many clubs and tournaments will play celluloid for a very long time, perhaps into a very distant future if the manufacturers continue supporting the celluloid ball production.  It may very well be the case that many competitive players will play for years with the celluloid ball.

If the Poly Ball is selected for the Nationals, it will hurt attendance.

What will be interesting is observing the responses of the national governing bodies around the world to the celluloid/poly ball selection.  To move to the poly ball is to suggest the throwing away of all the now-devalued celluloid balls that people now own.

The degree of resistance to the poly ball will be proportional to the degree that players are required to alter their technique. 

2) The review suggests that table tennis play will be little affected by the new ball.  If that is the case, then the ITTF has failed, for the purpose of the ball change is to appreciably alter the game by slowing it down.  The purpose of the ball change is to not slightly change the game, but significantly change the play dynamics.

Thanks............Donn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/18/2014 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by AcudaDave AcudaDave wrote:

Since these balls are heavier does it mean you can really give someone a good "welt" when you hit their arm or leg with it by mistake? I used to practice with a mid 2200 player that really smacked the ball...and after every session I would always have 2 or 3 good welts on my legs from some of his smashes that missed the table. Maybe you'll really feel it now when you take a good shot on the leg. 
 
 
Yup, in Korea this would be important. I am so happy PP ball is not like golf ball or we would be in a world of warrior hurt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j-bo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/25/2014 at 10:01am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

Friends,

Don"t get in panic, the stone dead balls will not stay in play for long. Yes.





... The relaxed approval is valid until January 2016. At this date, after all developments is completed, the original specifications will apply.


Hence, Nittaku shall take up a serious revision of their "stony" balls , so as to make the product some lighter and flexible.. The revision has to be no later than by the end of 2015.


So why not shelve the poly ball all together until 2016 when they can actually get it "right"??

Seems like they don't want to tick off the manufacturers who have been in mass production for these poly balls, so they will let the public use their monies to fund a ball that won't be legal to use in 2 years.

Gotta love the laugh-ability of it all. ITTF..pffft.

This article deserves a thread of it's own so it doesn't get lost. I'm sure the public would want to know that the ball they are buying now is "temporary".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2014 at 9:22pm
I had a chance to hit a little with this ball yesterday.  We were essentially just warming up and getting a feel for the ball.
Based on the threads I've read on this, I was expecting much worse.  It's really not that bad.
The ball is slower and it doesn't spin as much, but otherwise I didn't notice any other differences.  Due to the slower spin and less spin, blocking was MUCH easier.  
I had very little trouble blocking his loops, but with a celluloid ball I usually have a lot of trouble because of the excessive side spin.  Likewise he had very little trouble blocking my loops, whereas it used to give him some trouble.  I did find that after a couple of loops I had to lift the ball more and re-spin to get the ball over.  I couldn't drive it as much.  After re-spinning it I could get a couple more loops in and then rinse and repeat.  

I didn't get a chance to try serving or receiving but I suspect it would be easier to return serves due to less spin.

I think at levels under 2000 the advantage will shift towards the defensive players who keep the ball on the table and wait for a mistake from the opponent.  It's just much easier to keep it on the table and return loops and drives.  So the more consistent player has the advantage.  At the higher levels where the consistency is already there, I'm not sure.

I think the people that try to hit the ball through you instead of away from you will run into big trouble.  It really is to your benefit to focus more on placement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tianhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2014 at 2:46am
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Edited by tianhai - 07/25/2014 at 2:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2014 at 6:59am
Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2014 at 9:37am
The new 40+ balls I tried felt terrible. The ball seems slower off the racket, but with less spin and bounce the ball bounces lower, so it has the effect of "kicking" off the table, so it feels a bit faster off the bounce. 

The clear lack of spin is what I don't like. I was having trouble getting the ball over the net. Clearly this is a ball for hitters, defenders, pips, etc. Or professional level Chinese players who are basically hitting/smashing the ball when they hit loops. Amateur-level Euro/Japanese style Tenergy loopers like me are getting the short end of the stick. I may need to change my name to HITMEISTER or DRIVEMEISTER in a year or so if these balls actually take hold. LOL

And the sound they make! Sounds like a regular ball with a huge crack in it.

BOOOOOO! Thumbs Down


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2014 at 10:08am
Worse, play with the new balls for about three sessions, and then go back and try to play with regular celluloid.  I did that this week.  My timing with the old balls last night was completely shot, it was the 9th circle of table tennis hell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/25/2014 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Worse, play with the new balls for about three sessions, and then go back and try to play with regular celluloid.  I did that this week.  My timing with the old balls last night was completely shot, it was the 9th circle of table tennis hell.



Myself and another guy played with the new ball last Wednesday night. He is a heavy spinner from both sides, the new ball messed his timing up a lot. I am more of a loop hitter from both sides, the new ball did not mess up my timing. I just had to watch the bounce which is different then react.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2014 at 1:08pm
I just went back and read Larry's comments about the Nittaku ball.  It is exactly what I felt also.  Definitely better than Joola. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2014 at 6:43pm
Hopefully these will become the norm and standard for other companies. Your scale is not accurate enough to measure true weight since the ITTF reads a range between 2.67 and 2.77. So it might round the 2.5 to a 3 and a 2.49 to a 2.

If someone please get a more accurate scale readings for the weight that way we wont have bunch of 2g and 3g posted here, because that range is wayyyyyyyyy to big to post and suggest that one ball is 1/3 lighter than another.

Edited by DreiZ - 08/15/2014 at 6:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2014 at 11:46pm
One could calibrate the scale with a small plastic lid on it and put 6-12 balls on it, then average out the weight. My scale goes to 1/10 gram and would need to weigh like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2014 at 7:07am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

One could calibrate the scale with a small plastic lid on it and put 6-12 balls on it, then average out the weight. My scale goes to 1/10 gram and would need to weigh like this.


In the OP's case, where the scale's precision is to the gram, the OP would need 100 balls minimum to get a reliable 2 decimal point average.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2014 at 7:23am
hithithit is correct.  At the end of the day, you need a good balance to do this.  

I have weighed some of the Joola 40+ balls on a laboratory analytical balance accurate to .001 g.  The were not significantly heavier than the celluloid balls I weighed at the same time, which really surprised me because they definitely feel heavier when you play, a lot more than the few milligrams of difference I noticed.  (Note, it is was a small sample of 6 balls).  What is interesting is that they continued to feel heavier even after I knew that they were not. I think it may be because they are harder. Debater over at OOAK forum has done the same thing although his balance may not have been quite up to the task.  I haven't weighed a Nittaku Japan polyball but will as soon as mine arrive (sadly not until October).  When I played with it, it also felt a little heavier too, along the lines of the Joola (although it has a much better bounce).  I mention this to say that while it felt heavier, it may not actually be appreciably heavier. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbkon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2014 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.

BS, the arc of the bounce is higher and the diffrence when playing again with 40mm is flatter play, it will mess your timing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2014 at 8:57pm
talking to one of the local club principle's today his take was that none of the local clubs including  those with  strong training program would be using them due to cost.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tianhai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2014 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by bbkon bbkon wrote:

Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Originally posted by tianhai tianhai wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

 
  据楼世和透露,中国队已经在半年前收到了新球,并在训
练中使用。“运动员是所有器材的高端用户,他们使用后通过
数据收集,解决了很多问题。新球直径为40毫米-40.5毫
米,并将在球体上标注40+字样予以识别,并且在重量上较
之“赛璐珞”球,增加了0.05克。
  据孔令辉介绍,在硬度、圆度、重量、偏心、弹跳等五大
核心标准方面,新材料乒乓球与现用球理论上没有明显差异。
经过运动员试打,新球从落点、运行轨迹、旋转和声音上更能
保留原有的运动规律,备受运动员青睐,因此国际乒联最终决
定使用这种新球。

According to sources, the China national team had received the new balls 6 months ago and has been training using the new balls. The national team players are the best people to judge and review the balls. Statistics are collected after a period of training and the China national team has managed to solved many issues with the new balls. The acceptable range of diameters of the new balls is between 40mm and 40.5mm and will be identified by the "40+" mark on the ball. The weight of a average new ball is heavier than the celluloid ball by 0.05g.

According to Kong Ling Hui, the hardness, roundness, weight, orbital eccentricity and bounce of the new ball is in theory similar to the existing celluloid balls. After some practices by the national team players, it is discovered that the placement, arc, spin and sound of the new balls is in principal the same as celluloid balls. The players welcome the new ball. Therefore, ITTF finally decides to implement this type of ball.


Thanks for the translation.
It seems they have tested another balls.

BS, the arc of the bounce is higher and the diffrence when playing again with 40mm is flatter play, it will mess your timing

I agree. You need to rub the ball more to create the arc that can be created easily with old balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/18/2014 at 12:20am

Friends,
ANSWER THE QUESTION
and I can tell your mental sanity with highest possible accuracy..


-- Do our sport really need the ball to stay on as speedy and spinny?
-- Is the endless multitude of playing lapses really attractive/enjoyable to watch on TV and from spectator's seats?

Fool's answer is clearly in positive. And the sound answer is NOOOOOOO.

Every man in possession of some grain of mental sagecity knows the answer very well
--WE NEED THE BALL TO BE TEMPERED DOWN SOMEWHAT.
We need to sober down the rubber makers as well; those speedy/uncontrolable tensored rubbers will cretinize the sport badly.
Speed kills, yes.
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