Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Tibhar New Poly 40+ ball review
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login
tabletennis11.com

Tibhar New Poly 40+ ball review

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!




That's awesome! I want to get some.

 
GENIUS!!! Even as a player, these would be really fun to play with!!! Hidden services no problem!!!! Goodbye cheaters!!! AHAHAHAH


Bad news for the world, this ball will make the Chinese even more dominant as it rewards players with the strongest fundamentals, including spin-reading skills.



I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much.  But I still like the idea.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
in2spin View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 12/09/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 988
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:41pm
i have for long thought that putting lines on the ball would be a cool thing.....then, finally newbies or unknowing viewers would get some semblance of the tremendous amount of spin that is happening

:)
Back to Top
roundrobin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/02/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4708
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much.  But I still like the idea.


I think it's a fantastic idea, something that is completely opposite of what ITTF has tried to do to enhance the chances of upsetting Chinese domination anyway they can (e.g. 11-pts games). 
It's no wonder this 2-color ball idea did not come from the ITTF. 
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red

Back to Top
ZingyDNA View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 4:02pm
If the ball is spinning fast enough, which happens most of the time, the 2-color ball won't help you read the spin much, will it? You just know it's spinning fast, but not which way it's spinning. You just see a blur of mixture of white and orange   

On the other hand, it should make the spin very clear in ultra slow motion   

Edited by ZingyDNA - 07/17/2014 at 4:04pm
Back to Top
vvk1 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/14/2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 4:27pm
Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?
Back to Top
roundrobin View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/02/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4708
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?


Crystal.  Less mistakes will result.




Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red

Back to Top
ZingyDNA View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?


True. Backspin/No spin combo serve won't work any more. And not just the serves, nothing balls in the rally are also easily spotted. Is this further dumbing down the sport or making it more spectator friendly

Edited by ZingyDNA - 07/17/2014 at 5:12pm
Back to Top
ZingyDNA View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/19/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2373
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 6:16pm
Igor, I don't think you understand what we are saying. If the balls are 2-colored, you won't be tricked by nothing balls that appear spinning fast.
Back to Top
mts388 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member


Joined: 03/21/2014
Location: Sonora CA
Status: Offline
Points: 2376
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 7:27pm
I think that  he actually is joking. 
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 8:04pm
Please, don't put any borders of the sense of humor here Smile
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 8:37pm
I deleted a grotesquely inappropriate comment.  Certain things are over the line, at least on an English language forum. 
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2014 at 8:39pm
Discussion is going too much off the topic, combined with political conclusions from just a joke.
Come back to the plastic balls topic.

Back to Top
popperlocker View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/24/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!




That's awesome! I want to get some.

 
GENIUS!!! Even as a player, these would be really fun to play with!!! Hidden services no problem!!!! Goodbye cheaters!!! AHAHAHAH


Bad news for the world, this ball will make the Chinese even more dominant as it rewards players with the strongest fundamentals, including spin-reading skills.



I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much.  But I still like the idea.

Not sure about this. The Chinese and French are known for using their borderline illegal services(hidden and toss). Also, the Chinese rely on the 3rd ball kill... If anything, the German team may take over China.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 12:40pm
It would make dead-ball serves pretty useless, but the thing I notice about high level serves (and something Eric Owens used to spend a lot of time teaching me) is that  the key to sneaky serving is  not to serve dead.  It is to have serves that are heavy spin and light spin (but not dead), so opponent can't use label to see spin.  Probably both those kinds of serves will just look like a light yellow blur with these balls.  The goal of high-level serving isn't to get people to miss, it is to have receiver hit a weak return, which for someone in the top 100 in the world only needs to be  off by a few centimeters. 

The receiver has to respect the possibility that you may be serving very heavy, but if they over compensate, they are hosed.

(There is a lot more to good serving than just this, but this is a pretty common strategy, and I have seen Ma Lin destroy people using only this).
Back to Top
hookumsnivy View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/04/2010
Location: Syracuse, NY
Status: Offline
Points: 1599
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 1:05pm
I think the 2 tone ball will hurt defensive players more than anything.  If you are a chopper and depend on spin variation, this will help limit the mistakes by the attacker.  It will be more obvious how much or little spin is on the ball.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 1:31pm
Above a relatively small number of revs/second it will like the same no matter how much spin there is, so maybe not much effect overall.
Back to Top
lineup32 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/06/2012
Location: Calif
Status: Offline
Points: 1195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 2:36pm
38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.
Back to Top
PierreAd View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/06/2014
Location: Lyon, France
Status: Offline
Points: 27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PierreAd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).
Back to Top
lineup32 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/06/2012
Location: Calif
Status: Offline
Points: 1195
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by PierreAd PierreAd wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).

If the direction of the TT game is to make it easier to return the ball rather then generate a winning stroke by either player for an  immediate winner or that causes the opponent to make an outright error or a weak return then the entire structure of the game should be changed including serve,  points and equipment that help/encourage players to return balls for longer rallies.  Maybe a time limit say a rally has to last 5 minutes before a player can make a point.  LOL
Back to Top
popperlocker View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/24/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1753
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by PierreAd PierreAd wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).

If the direction of the TT game is to make it easier to return the ball rather then generate a winning stroke by either player for an  immediate winner or that causes the opponent to make an outright error or a weak return then the entire structure of the game should be changed including serve,  points and equipment that help/encourage players to return balls for longer rallies.  Maybe a time limit say a rally has to last 5 minutes before a player can make a point.  LOL
I don't know about you, but I can't watch 38mm games. Timo vs Waldner was like watching paint dry, there were more unforced errors than winners. The game should have been changed to "Pick ball off the ground" 40mm games are a little better, but still has a good serving of unforced errors. The Chinese even prefer to watch Basketball, Tennis, and Soccer over TT. 
What if basketball players used water balloons instead of a basketball? What if Tennis players used a rubics cube as a ball? What if soccer players used golf balls instead of soccer balls? 38mm TT was like using Rubics Cube Tennis, like watching two blind children play.
Back to Top
LUCKYLOOP View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/27/2013
Location: Pongville USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2800
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LUCKYLOOP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by PierreAd PierreAd wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).


We used a 2-color ball in practice about 3 weeks ago. The other guy played with long pips on his BH. He chopped and blocked off the table. It was definitely easy to see his rotational changes to the ball in rallies.
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/18/2014 at 9:24pm
What about clothes with this double/triple colored ball ?
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 5:41pm
I played with some of the Joola 40+ ITTF approved plastic balls today.  It seems most likely they are made in the same factory as the Tibhar ones, although I don't actually know this for a fact.

They were nicely round, appeared slightly easier to see, had a very hard feeling -- you really felt the contact with the blade.  The bounce was nice on our our somewhat old Tibhar Smash 28 tables.  I wouldn't say they sounded exactly like celluloid balls, but the sound was not anywhere near as awful as some of the plastic balls making the rounds a few months ago.  They don't sound broken.  I think I agree with other people in that it may be slightly harder to get heavy spin on the ball, either serving or looping, I played with a couple of 2400+ players today and it may just be imagination but it seemed like their spin was not quite so intimidating. 

All in all, though, to my great surprise, seeing them for the first time, I quite liked them.  (I was very critical of ITTF for doing this change).  I really don't think people will take too long to adjust, and I for one, based on what I have seen so far, will not make any equipment change for now.  If later I decide to make a change, it will not be anything drastic.  I suspect people will adjust to whatever changes there are quite quickly, probably without having to change blade or rubber. This applies not just to equipment but also to technique.  I seemed to do better when I actually tried to not hit quite so hard.  I need to keep an eye on that.  It is not exactly the same as what we have had for last ten years or so, but nowhere near as big an adjustment as going from 38 to 40 mm.

Next time I play I am going to pull one out without telling anyone and see if my practice partner notices anything at all.
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 6:19pm
Thanks Baal, may be there is a general difference in the quality of these and TIBHAR 40+ if you can not find a serious difference between the playing skills with the old and new ball.
I am not sure who is producing these balls you have tested, but it is not possible to feel almost the same these factors - spin and speed during play.
Of course most of the professionals will stay with their current equipment until something new comes on the market. Tenergy 101 for example. Or Rasant Twin Turbo.
I am sure with the new materials the ball will be increased by ITTF once again in the next 5 years.
May be up to 42-43mm.
Smile
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 6:41pm
I definitely did not see the production flaws that you documented above for the Tibhar balls.  Time will tell how common that problem is, maybe I just got lucky.  Also, it occurs to me that I have not examined all six balls that came in the package, just two of them. 

I played today for about an hour.  Next time I will play longer, will learn more.  So far, nowhere near as awful as I feared.

I just went back and read the very first post on this thread.  I would say that is exactly what I would say too based on what I saw today.  One thing I wonder, is given that I have read this comment about these balls in more than one place, did that subconsciously alter my perception?

Edit.  It says Made in China on the Joola box. 

Edit 2.  None of the six balls in my box have the problems Kolev found in his sample of Tibhar balls.  Mine were shipped by Megaspin.
Back to Top
kolevtt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 06/13/2011
Location: European Union
Status: Offline
Points: 2574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kolevtt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 6:48pm
Well, that's okay, really.
I played with may be two levels more lower player and I just lost a game because nothing worked as well with the Tibhar 40+ balls.
Nobody liked here these Tibhar 40+ balls as we all noticed they are for other kind of table tennis.
Beer Pong, for example.
I am currently waiting to see these Joola Super-P balls, it will be really interesting to check their skills.
Back to Top
Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/12/2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 826
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2016 at 10:11am
I had a word with my local Tibhar supplier to find out what is the date on the seamed balls they have in stock and I was shocked to hear that the latest batch they got recently is from last June. It is almost a year since since then.

Has anyone encountered a more recent batch of those balls?
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2016 at 11:02am
No.

It is possible that Tibhar, Joola, Donic, Stiga, and other companies that have been selling re-labeled DHS balls are waiting on the newest DHS balls to come out (the so-called D40+) and then they will start putting their names on those.  They will be made with a new type of plastic and a new seam-sealing technology that may be similar to what Nittaku is using. Zeio dug up a few patents that suggest that, anyway. 

It is also possible that many companies were as upset about the quality of the Chinese seamed balls as many of us here.  That is probably why Tibhar started marketing seamless balls as well.

Will these D40 balls be better?  Well they certainly can't be worse!  So I try to stay hopeful.  Ideally they would be pretty much like the Nittaku Japan balls. 

By the way, I did manage to obtain some DHS balls with a November manufacture date.  They are rounder.  But in terms of bounce, they are as bad as ever.  I didn't find out if they are more durable because I didn't want to play with them because of the low bounce.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14822
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2016 at 8:28pm
Ovtcharov's persistent complaints are all I need to know. His attitude to the ball with be the simplest barometer of change.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/15/2016 at 9:24pm
Yep.  He speaks for all of us on this.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.469 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.