|
|
XVT - Chinese knockoffs or OEM? |
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Author | ||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 09/12/2014 at 2:08pm |
|||
While all that is rationally arguable (certainly the part about the incentive is indisputable, and also the part about the consequences of not having a patent), it doesn't give you the right to sell stuff from your own store that is not merely a clone, but is actually a counterfeit. It seems XVT has crossed that line.
As for Butterfly crying "copycat" or "intellectual property", in fairness and to the best of my knowledge they are not doing that. There are just a few of us here who retain our own opinion about what XVT is doing (my own is that it is fairly pathetic). At the same time, I think the prices Btfly is charging for some of their new blades are completely insane but I prefer ALC to this material anyway. |
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
While free market allows unique and groundbreaking products safeguard against its revenue potential....
It also imposes its intrinsic balancing criteria, which is ...if you jack up the price way beyond its cost; you are increasing the the potential incentive to copy it. i'm just emphasizing imago's point. Its for the owner to decide at which price point he can be incentivized for his novel idea. And at which price point you are create very high incentive to clone. Now there is a situation that your cost of idea (read r&D) is so high, that you have to sell it at way beyond cost price (like a silicon chip or a new drug), and in those cases you have to invest in securing a trademark. not doing any of the above, and shouting "copycat!" "intellectual piracy" "unfair" .... is lame to me. |
||||
hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I have no problem with people trying to clone blades or rubbers as long as they are honest about it. So many blades and rubbers are similar already anyways.
It will still come down to craftsmanship, quality control, durability, etc. I think it's different if it's patented/patentable intellectual property. Blade construction (unless you invent your own composite material) is not in that category. |
||||
Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|||
I will be glad if you do that. But don't forget to put the corresponding low price tag so that more people could read it.
With their high prices, BTY are crossing all lines and deserve such kind of reaction. |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Imago, how about I take one of your books and publish it with my name as author? Very revolutionary idea. Striking a blow for freedom and all that. Liberating.
|
||||
Imago
Premier Member Joined: 07/19/2009 Location: Sofia Status: Offline Points: 5897 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Just 10 times less than the prototype blade alone. There is something revolutionary and truly liberating in this kind of meeting people's needs while slapping the greedy capitalist sharks in the face. |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Yes, I stand corrected. Way crossing the line. Horrible. Dishonest. Pathetic. |
||||
hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
They're selling the "Tenergy" and "H3 National" in their store and calling it authentic. That's crossing the line. It's one thing if someone else was selling it, but when it's being sold in their store they are responsible. Or should I say irresponsible? |
||||
debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Baal... agree to disagree further. :)
if i am buying things with objective of improving my games... and not to support global innovation. (frankly i wouldn't have bought butterfly rubbers then, as they were not the first to make sandwitched inverted rubbers. probably not even arylate blades). If i can afford a store brand equivalent, or a generic medication, i would rather use that and get cured... instead of saying "let me be sick and appreciate innovation". now playing crap or great is unrelated to this discussion. i have plenty of crap tenergy ... and i have clone blades which played better than a piece of original blade. there is no point thinking if i make a new design, the blade will play great... and if a copy a design it will play crap, because i didn't admire innovation!! |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Agree to disagree here, obviously buy what you want, but I think it's pretty pathetic and I have no respect for someone who can't come up with their own design. None. And if they sell you a fake Tenergy to go with it and it plays like crap, well you got what you deserved. But I don't think in this case it's actually XVT that's slapping fake rubber on the blades. So I don't think as yet they've crossed that line.
|
||||
debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
fatt: i disagree!! its an age of consumer's preference. If butterfly sells "no special perceptible difference" blades, and use its expensive advertising dollars, to sell them to consumers at 12 times the cost of manufacturing..... market mechanism SHOULD come up with equivalent products at much lower price point.. to benefit the consumers. if butterfly felt the products or designs are so unique and technologically advanced that they bring in incredible advantage to players... then they should have paid money and globally patented the design. Otherwise ... the equivalent design helps thousands of potential low cost buyers identify the blade characteristics in the jungle of inflated marketing literature. |
||||
debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
what???? .. you know them by their woods? |
||||
debraj
Premier Member Joined: 06/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3369 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
on contrary, everytime i buy authentic butterfly product; i feel like supporting organised crime !!! |
||||
SolidEvolution
Member Joined: 05/10/2014 Location: The Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 70 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Let's just say XVT isn't the most tactical when it comes to selling their 'designs'.
The question you have to ask yourself is, why buy it? Buying Chinese made online means you CAN get real DHS for acceptable money. Heck, we all know that eBay seller in Tianjin and he doesn't even sell XVT.
|
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Isn't that pretty much what they are doing?
|
||||
Vlad0
Super Member Joined: 04/20/2014 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 159 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It's sounds me like "hey i payed almost 400$ for this blade but you only 40$ ... and they look the same .... oh no". If i were the owner of XVT i would do copies of the most expensive and famous blades exactly 1 on 1 with my XVT logo on the handle of course, which is fair enough, saying "copy of a ridiculously expensive blade". The priority will be the quality for sure. If i can't get quality i will not start at all. And maybe inscription "If you like the copy, you may buy the original, but we can't guarantee it will be better !". Most peoples are slaves to brand and thats why the prices are these, so making mine is no good for my business. You know there are much more peoples who can't afford such prices and i will always prefer to buy clone blade for 40 instead for 400. It is always better to buy this for 40$ and to make a donation. Not to mention that after 3 years for example they can decide to sell blades for 1000$. PS Hey this brown handle is my invention. I was first. Don't use this color in yours. OR Hey this is my kind of forehand. Find your way to hit the ball. |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Yes. That seems like a pretty minimal requirement to meet. |
||||
assam
Silver Member Joined: 03/02/2014 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 968 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I agree with that. If they would sell only genuine products they would have better sucess IMO
|
||||
hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Here's some advice: don't sell fake rubbers in your store. It makes people question all your products and keeps customers away.
|
||||
assam
Silver Member Joined: 03/02/2014 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 968 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I think they have fake rubbers and they copy some blades. But the one I've bought it's really the best I've tryed for blocking (ZL Fiber). I'm just trying to find a good FH rubber (already tried Tenergy 05 and 80, Tibhar Evo MX-P and EL-P and none had worked well... I'll try tomorrow the Hurricane 3-50 with booster)
Edited by assam - 09/10/2014 at 6:42pm |
||||
hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I followed the link from their page: http://www.xvt.cc/aliexpress-store
|
||||
ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
^ The rubbers are obviously fake. Are you looking at an authorized store of XVT?
|
||||
hookumsnivy
Gold Member Joined: 11/04/2010 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 1599 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Henry,
This item worries me: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/New-Arrival-ITTF-approved-XVT-High-Elastic-Red-Carbon-table-tennis-racket-pingpong-paddle-Free/318693_1805930625.html How can you include Tenergy 05 on a blade for just $45? The rubber alone costs more than that. Edit: And then there's this one: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/NEW-ARRIVAL-XVT-ZL-KOTO-Table-Tennis-Racket-Table-Tennis-Bat-Butterfly-Tenergy-05-and-National/318693_2027325881.html T05 + H3 blue sponge national + a blade for $46.55? I call complete BS on this one. I withdraw my questions since there looks to be some funny business going on in the store.
Edited by hookumsnivy - 09/10/2014 at 4:06pm |
||||
liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6347 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
So just what exactly are the Chinese good at besides stealing one's design for their own "products"? SMH
|
||||
assam
Silver Member Joined: 03/02/2014 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 968 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I've tried the ZL hinoki and I found it really really nice! I've just ordered the ZL Koto. Hope is as good
|
||||
kurokami
Gold Member Joined: 11/08/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1277 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
your phrasing may be misleading. i'm saying those taobao W- series DHS blades that look like Ma Long's blade we saw in a picture from peter that the casing said XVT. XVT does make OEMs, so my question when seeing this thread was if those W-series were knockoffs or OEM. in the case of OEM, the quality usually isn't that much different, like krn mfg. for apple cinema display is just a matter of QC pass/fail for very stringent conditions. but if they're knockoffs, then regardless of how we perceive the quality, it may still be a far cry from the real thing. (i'm assuming though that wood and material can't differ that much no matter who makes it)
|
||||
Viscaria
H3N/T05 http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65345&KW=&title=feedback-kurokami |
||||
Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
http://www.pingpongboard.com/showdetail.asp?boardid=52600
Pimplelover also distribute it to Thailand ^ upper link Some reviewer claims it is very close to Amultart. The quality is great and it cheap !! |
||||
I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
|
||||
haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Some of the major manufacturers put a lot of time and effort into making a good looking blade. For me it does not feel right if a Chinese manufacturer just copies it. Sure there may be demand for a cheaper look alike, but that does not make it right, and you may also deceive some people into thinking they're buying a genuine one.
|
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Well, my main point was that there is clearly a difference between XVT and YinHe, at least as things seem to stand now. YinHe actually does have original designs and your comparison between what they do and what ESN does is probably reasonable enough, and I have bought ESN stuff, including rubber with large pored sponge, without any compunctions, so I see your point. (I'm still not going to buy anything from YinHe anytime soon, but your comment has caused me to reconsider my opinion about them). It is also true that even though incomes and living standards are increasing in China, not many of the amateur players I have met there would be willing to spend what it takes to have a Butterfly composite blade and genuine Tenergy, for example. So YinHe has a huge niche. Fair enough. I still believe what XVT does is beyond the pale-- at least what they were doing with the blades that started this thread. I had to look up what moral agency means. One source says it refers to "an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some commonly held notion of right and wrong". I learn something new every day. If that is the usual definition, I'm not sure how one would misdirect it. That would be Imago's ballywick. By the standards that are commonly held in my line of work, at least, and on this side of the Pacific Ocean, YinHe would be ok and what XVT was doing at the start of this thread would not.
|
||||
AgentHEX
Gold Member Joined: 12/14/2004 Location: Yo Mama Status: Offline Points: 1641 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
This is a complete misunderstanding of the blade/equipment market in china not to mention misdirected moral agency. The vast majority of for example Yinhe blades aren't "copies" of anything (the most cursory glance at their catalog makes this evident), yet it's the analogous blades that are often the most popular and therefore better known. To avoid hypocrisy they should also boycott anyone who sells ESN large pore sponge rubbers (and same geometry of pips on top no less) for "copying" Tenegy. How it works is that chinese enthusiasts who want an OC because it was used by WLQ might not to pay a very significant 300rmb+ for it, and Yinhe makes something that looks similar and in this case better quality for <100. It's no different than buying store brand cereal instead of the well marketed sort. No matter what the wannabe TT scientist might think, blade veneers are too trivial to be considered protected IP, so whatever sense of legal standing also do not apply. TL;DR: folks who don't let their lack of awareness of design or IP get in the way of their beliefs are pretty funny. |
||||
Post Reply | Page 123> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |