XVT - Chinese knockoffs or OEM?

GMan4911 wrote: hithithit wrote: What makes you think they are an OEM? Don't forget, the market in China is MASSIVE - a billion+ people Because that's one of the functions of an OEM - making products for other companies including slapping the other company's name on the product.   OEM's don't necessarily market products under their own name, which is why no one's ever heard of XVT.

@GMan4911,

You missed my point. I am saying the Chinese market is so big, there are many brands that can survive just by operating in China. Therefore, just because XVT have been operating for many years and many of us heard of it before, doesn't mean that they are an OEM. Are you getting me?

But if they were an OEM for anyone, I know they could not be for the Butterfly and Stiga blades as pictured in the OT. My reason as mentioned earlier, these specific blades are made in Japan and Sweden, respectively.

PS. I knew what an OEM was. My question was, "what makes you think they are an OEM?" or why do you think they are an OEM? :)

hithithit wrote: GMan4911 wrote: hithithit wrote: What makes you think they are an OEM? Don't forget, the market in China is MASSIVE - a billion+ people Because that's one of the functions of an OEM - making products for other companies including slapping the other company's name on the product.   OEM's don't necessarily market products under their own name, which is why no one's ever heard of XVT. @GMan4911, You missed my point. I am saying the Chinese market is so big, there are many brands that can survive just by operating in China. Therefore, just because XVT have been operating for many years and many of us heard of it before, doesn't mean that they are an OEM. Are you getting me? But if they were an OEM for anyone, I know they could not be for the Butterfly and Stiga blades as pictured in the OT. My reason as mentioned earlier, these specific blades are made in Japan and Sweden, respectively. PS. I knew what an OEM was. My question was, "what makes you think they are an OEM?" or why do you think they are an OEM? :)

beeray1 wrote: hithithit wrote: ...But if they were an OEM for anyone, I know they could not be for the Butterfly and Stiga blades as pictured in the OT. My reason as mentioned earlier, these specific blades are made in Japan and Sweden, respectively. As well as being made in Japan, Butterfly also has blades outsourced to China and Hungary to be manufactured IIRC. (IE- the Japanese made Korbel is more desirable than the Hungarian one). Stiga has a huge market in china, as well as Stiga factory in China.

Sorry, but is your comment an extension to my comment or are you saying that I was wrong?

I said "But if they were an OEM for anyone, I know they could not be for the Butterfly and Stiga blades as pictured in the OT. My reason as mentioned earlier, these specific blades are made in Japan and Sweden, respectively."

If you have a look at photos, they are Butterfly and Stiga blade models made in Japan and Sweden, respectively, and not China. That straight away rules out XVT being the OEM of those blades.

beeray1 wrote: While not everything that comes out of China is great quality, they are capable of making high quality blades from what I've seen.

Not disputing. One of my blades is a Japanese branded Chinese made blade. And it is a very very good blade! Nothing wrong with products made in China, the sometimes challenging part is knowing what you are getting. Too often, I do hear people complaining about made in China products, but the root cause in most cases is actually people not knowing what they were buying.

Hey Guys ,  those blades with this graphic design were testing blades, which is obvious for palyers to compare!   The final  and offical design items are showed in XVT web :  www.xvt.cc  

Henry Liu wrote: The final  and offical design items are showed in XVT web :  www.xvt.cc   Please do have a check!!

Much better :)

We will keep trying to make something better with good price. Thank you

Henry Liu, it is good that you have come to the forum.  It is always good to have a new manufacturer enter the market, so I wish you the best.

I am going to throw in my own advise based on being a moderator of the For Sale section of the forum here for a few months.  Make sure to offer your blades in square handles.  In the US that would give you a big advantage over Butterfly.  Good blades in square handles are getting harder to find.  (For me, I prefer FL, but it comes up a lot here.  For example, people here are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for an old black tag Butterfly Viscaria with a square handle).

I agree, you have good taste in blades to copy.  But it is good to have something that will make your own name.  If I can be very honest with you, here in the west the criticism of many Chinese TT companies is that the quality control is not great, and some of the companies like Yinhe are primarily known for copying Stiga and Butterfly, and not for developing innovative new designs of their own.  Some of that reputation is deserved, some of it is unfair.  Not all Yinhe blades are clones, for example, but too many are.   With some of the cheaper Chinese brands, if you find a good blade, then when you buy another one in the same model it turns out to have completely different feel and weight.  Not good. 

I hope you will be able to develop a new line of blades that is novel, excellent, and reproducible.  Speaking just for myself, I also hope you can develop an ALC blade that is not excessively fast, something along the lines of the older black tag Butterfly ALC blades (Timo Boll Spirit, Visaria) which are a bit slower than the current versions of Timo Boll-ALC, Viscaria, and Zang Jike-ALC.  Something like that would be a unique market niche for you now, I would buy one and I think many others would too.  

Note added in edit.  By  communicating your new designs with people on the forum you can build a following.  That has worked well for several smaller companies, like Nexy in Korea, as well as OPS, Ross Leidy, Charlie, and others.

Very appreciate your opinions.  Sometimes we do not only to copy, we also upgrade it.   For example, we may change the thickness , the core to make it feel more better.  

i have seen the blades on their site. they look like they have good quality blades maybe better than yinhe

i'm sure they have cpen versions maybe they just haven't uploaded it yet

XVT is a Hongkong company. Although its factory is located in China , xvt focus on the international market. And we care more of the quality not the price.

Baal wrote: achoomai wrote: So , would you complain Yinhe as well since they also make a lot of clone blades (even they have some own design blade) ? I have many times.  I think they also suck for doing this. Because of this practice, I would never buy anything made by Yinhe. But what you friend is doing is even more egregious in terms of even stealing some of the symbols on the blades (like the dragon on the ZJK clone and the Timo Boll logo on that clone) just to make it perfectly clear to everyone what he is shamelessly copying.  He must be working in a country where there is no such thing as copyright or patent infringement.  By the way, Yinhe does make a few of their own novel blades as you note (although to the best of my knowledge few if any profesional players use them).  Your friend should come up with his own innovative blades if he wants to be taken seriously. (That is how he will make more money also). For now, IMHO, it is contemptible.  Nobody has a patent on use of a material in a blade as far as I know.  Xiom also uses Zylon, and lots of companies have used aramid, kevlar, etc.  I don't have a problem with that.

This is a complete misunderstanding of the blade/equipment market in china not to mention misdirected moral agency. The vast majority of for example Yinhe blades aren't "copies" of anything (the most cursory glance at their catalog makes this evident), yet it's the analogous blades that are often the most popular and therefore better known. To avoid hypocrisy they should also boycott anyone who sells ESN large pore sponge rubbers (and same geometry of pips on top no less) for "copying" Tenegy.

How it works is that chinese enthusiasts who want an OC because it was used by WLQ might not to pay a very significant 300rmb+ for it, and Yinhe makes something that looks similar and in this case better quality for <100. It's no different than buying store brand cereal instead of the well marketed sort. No matter what the wannabe TT scientist might think, blade veneers are too trivial to be considered protected IP, so whatever sense of legal standing also do not apply.

TL;DR: folks who don't let their lack of awareness of design or IP get in the way of their beliefs are pretty funny.

Some of the major manufacturers put a lot of time and effort into making a good looking blade. For me it does not feel right if a Chinese manufacturer just copies it. Sure there may be demand for a cheaper look alike, but that does not make it right, and you may also deceive some people into thinking they're buying a genuine one.

hithithit wrote: hithithit wrote: kurokami wrote: hithithit wrote: Obviously not OEM - firstly the Butterfly and Stiga blades shown are made in Japan and Sweden respectively. Secondly, price wise is a give away. Just remember, though it may look like the real thing, it most probably doesn't play like the real thing. I suppose it could be fun for novelty but I still wouldn't buy them. Everytime you buy a counterfeit goods, know well you could be supporting organised crime or someone who has little regards for others. u sure? bc last time that taobao seller with the w series ma long blades (i didn't buy)- those were XVT made. @kurokami, Sure of what? Sure of XVT don't make the Butterfly and Stiga blades shown in those photos? Or sure of buying counterfeit goods could be supporting organised crime or someone who has little regards for others? @kurokami, Oh, I think I am kinda getting you now. Are you saying Ma Long has used an XVT blade? If yes, please tell me which XVT blade because I am interested in getting one too.

So just what exactly are the Chinese good at besides stealing one's design for their own "products"?  SMH