|
|
Dimitrij Ovtcharov Serving Technique (slow motion) |
Post Reply |
Author | ||||
bbll
Super Member Joined: 07/25/2013 Location: HK Status: Offline Points: 109 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 07/15/2014 at 6:16am |
|||
Dimitrij Ovtcharov's Serving is very special. Let's observe his hand movement under slow motion! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbDwBrnbD4
More Tutorial video: http://www.pp-station.com/search/label/%E4%B9%92%E4%B9%93%E6%95%99%E5%AD%B8 Like our facebook: http://www.facebook.com/ppstation.hk Please also subscribe PPSTATION CHINA youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ppstationchina Edited by bbll - 07/15/2014 at 6:18am |
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
jrscatman
Premier Member Joined: 10/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4585 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Thanks nice video. Also, good to see how to return those serves.
|
||||
Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1 BH: Palio CK531A OX |
||||
suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It was mentioned in a thread not that long ago and I can't help but notice it since... And that's just how little pure backspin serves pros use.
Mostly they're side/back, pure side, fair number of side/top when you factor in the two bounces. A lot of those serves are returned with a relatively flat face of blade or even closed if they want to attack the ball.
|
||||
Edmundtt
Beginner Joined: 01/15/2014 Location: Hong Kong Status: Offline Points: 16 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The scenes are well cut. He has a very good backhand. I would love to see more of his backhand flick too.
|
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
there were times that his bh submarine serves are illegal because they are obviously below the playing surface when he starts to toss the ball
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
It all depends on how you view the rules. His toss(arm/wrist/hand) begins when the ball is above the surface. The whole body is in motion before then but the hand/wrist is still relative to the rest of the body.
|
||||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
the serve starts when it is clear that you have the intention to serve not just by tossing the ball.
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
and yes, an international umpire who is a friend of mine made this kind of serve as an example of an illegal serve. during competitions umpires would let it go though because it does nothing to affect the ball but by legality standards it is illegal.
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
You mean during the back swing for the toss, the ball goes below the table? He's not the only one who does that I don't know if that's illegal, though, as the ball hasn't left the palm yet. Not sure the exact wording for this in the service rule.. |
||||
DistantStar
Super Member Joined: 07/19/2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 275 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Since Dima use identical rubbers on FH and BH, I guess it doesn't matter that much.
I think most people don't back swing on ball toss... And is the ball also not allowed to drop below? I thought it's just the racket? |
||||
Nittaku Acoustic
Xiom Sigma Euro 2.0 Tibhar Genius Sound 2.0 |
||||
ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
As I understand it, the ball must be behind and above the table from the start of the serve until you strike the ball. There's no requirement as to where the racket should be. I'm just not sure the back swing of toss counts as the start of the serve or not. Some people may say the ball is not in play until it leaves your palm.. And you are right, you don't really need a back swing for the serve.. |
||||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The main reason why I agreed with you is that an umpire I know believes that you must stop and present the ball before going into your service motion. Sometimes, Ovtcharov does this, but this video doesn't seem to show that. Starting below the table is not an issue as long as you stop to present the ball above the table before entering your service motion. But I guess other interpretations are possible, which is why service rules are very exhausting to discuss.
|
||||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
What the rules say is this: 2.6 THE SERVICE 2.6.1 Service shall start with the ball resting freely on the open palm of the server's stationary free hand. 2.6.2 The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck. So when the serve starts could be a bit of a gray area, which is probably why I have never seen that Dima has been called for this (not that I have viewed ever match of his). In my view, it would be the position of the hand with the ball at the time it is stationary, which I think is fairly implicit in the rule. It could be that his hand is always above the table at the time it is stationary. The umpire (at floor level) would usually have a better view of that then we would have from most angles that matches are videotaped (from well above floor level). One thing I find funny is that a lot of people say that this serve or that serve is illegal based on conversations they have had with umpires. In spite of that, we almost never see many of these same players called for illegal serves in international play -- in ITTF events umpired by actual international umpires! Watch what people do, not what they say. |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
But then, the ball would not truly be projected from a stationary hand, right? (There is a contradiction in terms in the rule, though, since if the hand doesn't move, it can't project the ball, unless our hands suddenly turn into anti-gravity devices). It is true that serve rules are exhausting to discuss. A lot of sports have rules like that -- fouls in futbol and basketball, strikes in baseball. In the end one finds that some umpires call things a little tighter than others and that is what we have in TT. Personally I think the hidden serve rules solved non-existent problems, but we have had a long time to get used to new rules so that is water under the bridge. Personally I think the ITTF umpires do a good job on this. |
||||
lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Clearly starting below the table is an issue and illegal.
|
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
No doubt about this. The (slightly) gray area is when the serve starts but as I think a bit more about it, clearly this doesn't matter; presumably when the hand is stationary it has has to be above the table, which means that if it drops below the table any time after that during the toss, a violation has occurred. The question I have is whether or not Dima actually violates this rule. Edit added. The video above at 1:47 is clearly illegal. |
||||
geardaddy
Super Member Joined: 11/14/2013 Location: Minnesota Status: Offline Points: 402 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Somehow this illegal serve discussion has moved from Dima starting his serve with his *racket* below the table surface to him starting his service by holding the ball under the table surface. He clearly does not start with the ball below the table surface, rather his hand is resting right at the end of the table and the ball is in view. Now, he does sometimes have that racket down below the table surface though.
Anyway, this whole thing is just another useless nitpicking of serves. Please stop with this nonsense.
|
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Geardaddy, I pretty much completely agree with the main point you make. I also wish this nonsense would stop. Where racket is doesn't matter. Where the hand is does according to the rules. I think 99.9% of the time Dima serves legally and I also hate the nitpicking that we constantly see. But if you look at the video at 1:47 there is no doubt he is starting with hand below table where ball cannot be seen and if an umpire called him on it (at least that time), it would not be incorrect.
|
||||
ZingyDNA
Platinum Member Joined: 09/19/2008 Status: Offline Points: 2373 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
If the serve starts when the ball leaves his palm, then the ball is above the table |
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
people should realize that the serve is considered starting the moment you make a motion with an intention to serve. it does not necessarily mean that the start of the serve is just the toss of the ball. the point here is dima before tossing the ball, the level of his free hand holding the ball is slightly below table surface.
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
you forgot about this rule which is the basis for the discussion
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
reflecx
Super Member Joined: 01/12/2011 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
From the ITTF Handbook for MATCH OFFICIALS
10.2.2 To help ensure that the ball can be seen resting freely on the palm it is required to be stationary above the level of the playing surface. The free hand may not be held stationary, dropped below the table surface and then brought upwards with a continuous sweep of the arm to throw the ball; if the hand is not brought to rest again above the level of the playing surface the service is illegal. At 1:46 in the video, his stationary hand was BELOW the level of the playing surface, and thus illegal. The umpires don't call it because he's not trying to impart spin to the ball when throwing, and doesn't really affect anything. |
||||
NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The serve should start when the ball is stationary and presented. Dima tends to (or appears to) slow down before tossing the ball so I think the umpires read that as his being stationary. He probably isn't actually stationary which is what yogi_bear is pointing out. As an analogy, I've seen umpires fault players for starting their service motion with their palm over the table though the ball is tossed behind the table and above table height.
Edited by NextLevel - 07/16/2014 at 11:53pm |
||||
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
||||
yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
yes that was what i'm trying to say. his movement before he tosses the ball is already part of his service action and the intention to serve is already there
|
||||
Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
||||
smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
|
||||
Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
||||
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |