Dimitrij Ovtcharov Serving Technique (slow motion)

Edited by bbll - 07/15/2014 at 6:18am

It was mentioned in a thread not that long ago and I can't help but notice it since... And that's just how little pure backspin serves pros use.

there were times that his bh submarine serves are illegal because they are obviously below the playing surface when he starts to toss the ball

the serve starts when it is clear that you have the intention to serve not just by tossing the ball. 

yogi_bear wrote: and yes, an international umpire who is a friend of mine made this kind of serve as an example of an illegal serve. during competitions umpires would let it go though because it does nothing to affect the ball but by legality standards it is illegal.

You mean during the back swing for the toss, the ball goes below the table? He's not the only one who does that

I don't know if that's illegal, though, as the ball hasn't left the palm yet. Not sure the exact wording for this in the service rule..

DistantStar wrote: Since Dima use identical rubbers on FH and BH, I guess it doesn't matter that much. I think most people don't back swing on ball toss... And is the ball also not allowed to drop below? I thought it's just the racket?

As I understand it, the ball must be behind and above the table from the start of the serve until you strike the ball. There's no requirement as to where the racket should be. I'm just not sure the back swing of toss counts as the start of the serve or not. Some people may say the ball is not in play until it leaves your palm..

And you are right, you don't really need a back swing for the serve..

yogi_bear wrote: the serve starts when it is clear that you have the intention to serve not just by tossing the ball.

What the rules say is this:


So when the serve starts could be a bit of a gray area, which is probably why I have never seen that Dima has been called for this (not that I have viewed ever match of his).  In my view, it would be the position of the hand with the ball at the time it is stationary, which I think is fairly implicit in the rule.  It could be that his hand is always above the table at the time it is stationary.  The umpire (at floor level) would usually have a better view of that then we would have from most angles that matches are videotaped  (from well above floor level).

One thing I find funny is that a lot of people say that this serve or that serve is illegal based on conversations they have had with umpires.  In spite of that, we almost never see many of these same players called for illegal serves in international play -- in ITTF events umpired by actual international umpires!

Watch what people do, not what they say.

NextLevel wrote: yogi_bear wrote: and yes, an international umpire who is a friend of mine made this kind of serve as an example of an illegal serve. during competitions umpires would let it go though because it does nothing to affect the ball but by legality standards it is illegal. The main reason why I agreed with you is that an umpire I know believes that you must stop and present the ball before going into your service motion.    Sometimes, Ovtcharov does this, but this video doesn't seem to show that.  Starting below the table is not an issue as long as you stop to present the ball above the table before entering your service motion.  But I guess other interpretations are possible, which is why service rules are very exhausting to discuss.

 

Somehow this illegal serve discussion has moved from Dima starting his serve with his *racket* below the table surface to him starting his service by holding the ball under the table surface.  He clearly does not start with the ball below the table surface, rather his hand is resting right at the end of the table and the ball is in view.  Now, he does sometimes have that racket down below the table surface though.

lineup32 wrote:  Clearly starting below the table is an issue and illegal From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by anything they wear or carry.

If the serve starts when the ball leaves his palm, then the ball is above the table

Baal wrote: yogi_bear wrote: the serve starts when it is clear that you have the intention to serve not just by tossing the ball.  What the rules say is this: 2.6 THE SERVICE 2.6.1 Service shall start with the ball resting freely on the open palm of the server's stationary free hand. 2.6.2 The server shall then project the ball near vertically upwards, without imparting spin, so that it rises at least 16cm after leaving the palm of the free hand and then falls without touching anything before being struck. So when the serve starts could be a bit of a gray area, which is probably why I have never seen that Dima has been called for this (not that I have viewed ever match of his).  In my view, it would be the position of the hand with the ball at the time it is stationary, which I think is fairly implicit in the rule.  It could be that his hand is always above the table at the time it is stationary.  The umpire (at floor level) would usually have a better view of that then we would have from most angles that matches are videotaped  (from well above floor level). One thing I find funny is that a lot of people say that this serve or that serve is illegal based on conversations they have had with umpires.  In spite of that, we almost never see many of these same players called for illegal serves in international play -- in ITTF events umpired by actual international umpires! Watch what people do, not what they say.

ZingyDNA wrote: lineup32 wrote:  Clearly starting below the table is an issue and illegal From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by anything they wear or carry.  If the serve starts when the ball leaves his palm, then the ball is above the table

Edited by NextLevel - 07/16/2014 at 11:53pm

reflecx wrote: From the ITTF Handbook for MATCH OFFICIALS At 1:46 in the video, his stationary hand was BELOW the level of the playing surface, and thus illegal. The umpires don't call it because he's not trying to impart spin to the ball when throwing, and doesn't really affect anything.

This is the real trouble, It's not realy the umpires decision to let things slide, how would they know if it affects the other player, I say don't let the pro's cheat