Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Sealing a blade
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Sealing a blade

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
DaNgo View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/01/2013
Location: Heaven
Status: Offline
Points: 107
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaNgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sealing a blade
    Posted: 07/19/2014 at 12:50pm
I need seal my blade to protect it. I see in the market have XIOM I-sure, I don't use it any time, and I think it too expensive, 13$ for 25ml. My friend recommend coat0 sealing wood to replace I-sure. How do you think
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
the_theologian View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/11/2009
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 3895
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 4:41pm
I think the search feature holds your answer.

And if you can't be bothered, choose Minwax Satin Poly (aerosol) and be done with it.
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
Back to Top
tiehwen View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/22/2006
Location: Bukan Bumiputra
Status: Offline
Points: 6434
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 7:39pm
this pic. says it all....


Edited by tiehwen - 07/19/2014 at 7:39pm
Back to Top
tommyzai View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
Senior Animator

Joined: 02/17/2007
Location: Tucson AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9289
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by tiehwen tiehwen wrote:

this pic. says it all....
Tiehwen and the theologian are right on the money!



Edited by tommyzai - 07/19/2014 at 7:53pm
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
Back to Top
tommyzai View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar
Senior Animator

Joined: 02/17/2007
Location: Tucson AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9289
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tommyzai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 7:53pm
I would add . . . use a clean cotton clothe like an old t-shirt. Rub it in. Do not let it puddle on top of blade. Repeat.
For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected]
Back to Top
hithithit View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/02/2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 319
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 8:49pm
I use nittaku racket protect. It leaves a very thin wax like layer, so you retain that natural feeling; and only adds about 1-2g of weight to the blade. It pairs well with nittaku finezip. Every time I change rubbers, I reassess if I need to apply the racket protect.
Back to Top
Crowsfeather View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/03/2013
Location: Thailand
Status: Offline
Points: 448
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crowsfeather Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 10:46pm
http://www.google.co.th/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jitporn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F12%2FLeylandLacquer-270x270.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jitporn.com%2Fproducts%2Fspraypaint%2Fleyland%2F&h=270&w=270&tbnid=sOJAtW-aKvq0NM%3A&zoom=1&docid=xxQnMzkrpvd--M&ei=Ui3LU8TWGdCRuATtwIKACw&tbm=isch&ved=0CCQQMygKMAo&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=311&page=1&start=0&ndsp=20

I use the spray. The clear one.
I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
Back to Top
aeoliah View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 11/18/2005
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 3215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/19/2014 at 10:53pm
Minwax is the best for sealing ! However I prefer to buy the smallest can as I do not use much of it. Once opened it will deteriorate as time passes.
Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen
Rasanter C48




Back to Top
guillem View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/28/2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guillem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 2:04am
Originally posted by tommyzai tommyzai wrote:

I would add . . . use a clean cotton clothe like an old t-shirt. Rub it in. Do not let it puddle on top of blade. Repeat.

This is the most useful (and "true") reply for now by far, so do it if you want to apply properly the polyurethane varnish.

Keep in mind that by applying it with a cloth you will prevent the acumulation of any excess of varnish that might happen if you applied it with a brush.

It's even also useful if, between coats (best not more than 2 or 3), you could just sand slightly with sandpaper. I will take the plunge and say with a 240-340 grit but I'm just no sure of that so if any pro around here could just validate my words, please.

If you do this, I think you would do just fine and I'm pretty sure you will obtain outstanding results.

But, if you really want to get what I think are the best results (at least for me), I would you recommend to utterly skip this sealing method because polyurethane tends to change the touch of the blade even if you carry out it with the variation mentioned above: it tends to become more rigid, loses some of the "good vibrations" if you are using an all wood blade,...

Here it comes what I think it's the best method of sealing the blade (at least for me). What I recommend you to do is to use a family of products called Hardwax oils. There are many brands out there that sure will do the job flawlessly but which I've just tested so far with unbelievable results is called Polyx-Oil, by OSMO. 

Keep in mind that this product is made of natural oils and waxes and it needs to penetrate the wood. The advantage I find more useful about it is that it maintains the original touch of the blade (some might think it even enhances the natural feeling of the wood in the composition of the blade, but it's a wild guess).

You need to apply directly to the wood so, if you have sealed the blade previously with polyurethane or with a water based varnish you should sand it thoroughly. 

Then lightly (=not too much becouse the blade simply does accept the amount it can till it saturates itself) apply it with any kind of Scotch Britte scourer (=don't know why but by doing that the oil penetrates better to the wood), if not possible then apply it with an old rag. 

The next step is to allways after 10 minutes or less (here I'm not so sure becouse I think there are others who wait more and others who don't) remove any excess of oil on the wood. Use an old rag for better results.

Then optionally you can sand it with 240-340 grit sand paper but it's not really compulsary, just do it if you want smoother finishes.

Then repeat: lightly (=not too much becouse the blade simply does accept the amount it can till it saturates itself) apply it with any kind of Scotch Britte scourer (=don't know why but by doing that the oil penetrates better to the wood), if not possible then apply it with an old rag. 

I hope it to be of any use,

Guillem.
Back to Top
Magic_M View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/31/2012
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 4:35am
 Thumbs Up Wink
Back to Top
c4runner View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03/01/2014
Location: Russia, SPB
Status: Offline
Points: 23
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c4runner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 5:02am
if you don't have any specific sealing stuff it is also possible to use hair fix spray. 
something like this
Back to Top
robjkc View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/26/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robjkc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 9:52am
Back to Top
guillem View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 04/28/2005
Location: Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 69
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guillem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Magic_M Magic_M wrote:

 Thumbs Up Wink

WinkWinkWink


I really appreciate your help!!!

Thanks to you, I can proudly say: "I've seen the light"/ "I've seen the right path"/... and stuff like that.

P.S.: for those who don't know, Magic_M was "the one" who gave me the wise advice to use Hardwax Oil.

P.P.S.: thanks again. You are the man.
Back to Top
jfolsen View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 03/15/2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1294
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfolsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 8:03pm
So here is the issue: The better the protection, the more the sealer affects/alters the way the blade hits. It's a somewhat small amount, but it is noticeable.

Hairspray, protects the least but has a negligible effect on the feel of the blade.
Zissner Sanding Sealer, reasonable protection, slight change in the hardness of the blade.
Minwax, great protection, won't ever splinter, but you are basically putting a very thin layer of plastic on top of your wood.

jfolsen

Back to Top
hithithit View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/02/2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 319
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by jfolsen jfolsen wrote:

So here is the issue: The better the protection, the more the sealer affects/alters the way the blade hits. It's a somewhat small amount, but it is noticeable.

Hairspray, protects the least but has a negligible effect on the feel of the blade.

   
   <div ="msg">
   Zissner Sanding Sealer, reasonable protection, slight change in the hardness of the blade.
Minwax, great protection, won't ever splinter, but you are basically putting a very thin layer of plastic on top of your wood.

jfolsen



I don't like the idea of using sealant designed for general wood that alters the characteristic of a blade. What's the point of buying the blade if you end up affecting it with a non-table tennis sealant. It is why I go for Nittaku Racket Protect, but wouldn't mind trying other brands and as a last resort hair spray.

When peeling the rubber, just peel from right to left or left to right. And using water based glue helps too for easier rubber removal.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/20/2014 at 11:53pm
Some people just use hair spray and then reapply once in awhile, as needed.  Doesn't change the way the wood plays.
Back to Top
haggisv View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar
Dark Knight

Joined: 06/28/2005
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5104
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haggisv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2014 at 1:42am
Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

I don't like the idea of using sealant designed for general wood that alters the characteristic of a blade. What's the point of buying the blade if you end up affecting it with a non-table tennis sealant. It is why I go for Nittaku Racket Protect, but wouldn't mind trying other brands and as a last resort hair spray.

When peeling the rubber, just peel from right to left or left to right. And using water based glue helps too for easier rubber removal.

Most (all?) of the TT sealers provide little protection against water (from the water-based glues), so they provide much less protection compared to something like a polyurethane-based sealer. If you only rub in a single very thin layer, I'm convinced you'll not be able to feel any difference.

The water-based glues are actually much worse for your blade, which is why sealing the blade is more important than ever. Water will soak into wood, making it swell, which is damage that don't be undone without affecting the properties of the blade.


Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX
Tenergy Alternatives | My TT Articles
Back to Top
hithithit View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/02/2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 319
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2014 at 3:40am
Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

I don't like the idea of using sealant designed for general wood that alters the characteristic of a blade. What's the point of buying the blade if you end up affecting it with a non-table tennis sealant. It is why I go for Nittaku Racket Protect, but wouldn't mind trying other brands and as a last resort hair spray.

When peeling the rubber, just peel from right to left or left to right. And using water based glue helps too for easier rubber removal.

Most (all?) of the TT sealers provide little protection against water (from the water-based glues), so they provide much less protection compared to something like a polyurethane-based sealer. If you only rub in a single very thin layer, I'm convinced you'll not be able to feel any difference.

The water-based glues are actually much worse for your blade, which is why sealing the blade is more important than ever. Water will soak into wood, making it swell, which is damage that don't be undone without affecting the properties of the blade.




Nittaku Racket Protect does offer some protection against water, have done experiment before. And I just did an experiment where I spread some Finezip on paper, a very negligible amount of water soaked into the paper compared to just a small amount of water that soaked much on the same type of general A4 office paper. Don't forget too, only a very thin layer is applied when you put the glue on with a sponge. Also to add, if there's anything the rubber sponge that you then lay on top of the glue will soak up the water residue that has not been soaked up by the Nittaku Racket Protect (which you first coat on beforehand and let dry).

Putting it all together, I think what I am using has little water impact on the blade. You got to remember, we are not constantly soaking the blade into water. But, I do think over a large period with my approach, you could see some effect on the top layer / ply of the blade with heaps of re-gluing. Though i have yet to see that. But that period / timeframe could be years.

And when you consider the average cost of a blade is worth about 3 tenergy or other high end expensive rubbers, and rubbers have useful life of about 200-300 hours of good use (to me, I play about 15-20 hours a week, so that means 4-5 months of use at most), then I think over a stretch of 2-3 years, the idea of replacing a blade is reasonable. At which, I then get rid of my old blade by giving it to someone with TT dedication but less fortunate or someone who is unwilling to spend on a blade (I would ask the person who receives my blade to pass theirs to someone else, and it cycles down). I am not a blade collector though I do take decent care of them, however what's most important to me is experiencing the blade and rubbers in its rawest form (thus, I don't use glue sheets for inverted rubbers). I am more into the skills and technique development and enhancement, and being with the company of the people I play with.

But I can also see why people would choose heavy duty wood sealant as they would probably want to keep the blade for more years.

Or to simply put, who here spray their new TT shoes with water proofing spray? And who would take one less stride in their footwork knowing that each contact with the floor wears the sole out? My point is, no need to treat the blade as the most valuable thing in TT, because it is your skills, the rawest equipment experience and time spent with others that are more valuable.

Edit: Typing a long response on a small phone device can be difficult.

Edited by hithithit - 07/21/2014 at 4:23am
Back to Top
hithithit View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/02/2014
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 319
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hithithit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2014 at 6:15am
Ok, I must add that despite my view on sealant for blades, I have to strongly say that haggisv and others do have a point why sealant should be use. I don't want to downplay its role especially for those who are wanting to keep their blades for long period, e.g. 5 years plus. But in the same token, I suggest people give some thoughts before applying and not blindly just do so because people have said so. The last thing I want to hear is someone is having a break down because they didn't treat it or think of treating it with anything (sealant, Nittaku Racket Protect, others, hair spray) before applying glue.

And as always, be careful when taking rubbers off the blade.
Back to Top
kindof99 View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/07/2014
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4216
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kindof99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/21/2014 at 7:36am
Isn't MinWax toxic?Any alternative is not toxic?
Back to Top
laki View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 05/24/2013
Location: SE Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote laki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2014 at 5:58am
Maybe this is your answer.

JOOLA Blade Sealing Varnish
It's water based, so non toxic, and with two layers it adds 1g or less to the weight of your blade.
I buy it in my country for 6 euros for 100 ml from Joola representative, but i can see that it costs 11.95$ on megaspin. I used it on all my blades without any issues what so ever. It protects the blade as good as any other sealant, and it doesn't have that high gloss finish when it dries, but more of a soft satin look.

Here is my Infinity treated with two layers of Joola varnish:


Here is varnish more notable. A close up side view with sunlight bouncing of the surface of the blade


When you unscrew the lid you have a brush mounted on it, but it's of a bad quality, so i use sponges to apply it, the same you use to apply glue.

Another big thing to notice is: i often tryout blades with rubbers glued on before i seal them, than i take off the rubbers gently, seal the blade and glue them on again. I didn't notice any change in performance in any of the blades that i used Joola varnish on. Up until now, i sealed Clipper Wood, Stradivarius, OSP Musko, OSP Virtuoso, JOOLA Greenline Extreme, Joola K7, Killerspin Diamond CQ and few others, and i beleve that they all kept their performance and sound the same before and after sealing with this varnish. Maybe a player with more sensitive touch and hearing can feel the difference, but i just couldn't.

You have instructions on on how to apply it on megaspin or joola's official site. Just google it, and you wont miss it.

Hope i helped a bit.

EDIT: I updated the price and added photos.


Edited by laki - 07/24/2014 at 6:11am
Stiga Clipper CC
FH: Xiom Vega Pro
BH: Joola X-plode
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/24/2014 at 10:07am
hair spray.
Back to Top
el_bichito View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/12/2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote el_bichito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/05/2017 at 8:24am
how would you remove xiom i-sure water based blade sealer from bat? i put too much i think. any options apart from sanding down? Also dont want to damage surface of blade. Brian

http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1225
Blade: Stiga Infinity VPS
BH: Rakza 7 Max
FH: Rakza 7 Max
Back to Top
Victor_the_cleaner View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 12/26/2014
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1428
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 1:46am
If you know what glue to use and don't glue too often you don't need to seal. It is very safe to assume that if it seals, it also changes the properties of the blade, though my main blades are sealed and I love their feel. If you reglue a lot I can confirm from personal experience that the blades become softer just from the water in the glue. 
Back to Top
el_bichito View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/12/2006
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 112
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote el_bichito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/06/2017 at 2:05am
any ideas on removing the sealant without sanding or damaging the blade surface. thanks
Blade: Stiga Infinity VPS
BH: Rakza 7 Max
FH: Rakza 7 Max
Back to Top
col6628 View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 04/24/2016
Location: nottingham
Status: Offline
Points: 81
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote col6628 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2017 at 12:41pm
if you use hair spray one or two coats ?
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2017 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by col6628 col6628 wrote:

if you use hair spray one or two coats ?
I use hair spray (two coats), and I find it did not work on some of my blades. I think it depends on the finish of the blade's surface. 
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2017 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by el_bichito el_bichito wrote:

any ideas on removing the sealant without sanding or damaging the blade surface. thanks
nail polish remover Smile
Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
Egghead View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 09/05/2009
Location: N.A.
Status: Offline
Points: 4230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Egghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/29/2017 at 1:16pm
I will try to seal my next blade with this method.

Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.266 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.