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When will you use the new balls exclusively? |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I think I will switch completely to the plastic balls when the new made in Japan Nittaku balls become generally available. It is superior to the Jooola 40+ ball, which is in turn a lot better than the XSF ball.
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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Baal, also don't think of USA/Europe as the world. Most players in the rest of the world will be using the celluloid ball as long as they are cheaper.
The price of a ball in USA/Europe means nothing to players. But to the rest of the world that cost is very significant. |
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Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Probably you are right about that, although players who are serious about their competition will also be influenced by what the tournament organizers in their countries decide to use. Players who have a more recreational intent will use celluloid balls as long as they can get them*. I think the plastic balls will be more expensive forever, since I strongly suspect that is the whole point---I have been pretty outspoken in my disbelief in the mythical "worldwide ban on celluloid". Also, I am sad to report that the only plastic ball I have tried so far that has pretty good performance, the Nittaku Made In Japan 40+ will almost certainly be the most expensive.
*I am pretty much a purely recreational player now, but a lot of my favorite playing partners play many tournaments, so I need to use what they use. |
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Pushdeep
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2013 Location: America Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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It doesn't make sense that companies want to sell the more expensive product. A for-profit company would logically want the lowest price with the highest profit. If a product has to be more expensive because it costs more to produce, resulting in the same profit, what good is that for the company?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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PD, my theory is that the companies will charge more for a product that at the moment may not cost more to produce to (a) recoup their R&D costs, and (2) make more money over the long term (since higher prices means higher profit as long as sales don't drop). The change in rules gives everyone the opportunity to jack up prices, as happened the last time balls changed size and even more so after the speed glue ban (for rubber). But I'm just theorizing, I certainly don't have any inside information. I certainly don't know what all goes into their production costs and how this changed one way or the other with new materials.
Competition could put a bit of a lid on price increases (assuming no collusion), but it's not like there are a lot of companies out there producing these things. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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There was supposed to be a reduction in shipping costs because these things were no longer flammable - I wonder if/when they will pass that reduction on to the consumer...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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TurboZ
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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I don't remember where I read it but yes the cost of transporting celluloid is higher because they are considered dangerous goods and have to keep the temperature lower than transporting meat. But the cost of new material is like 3 times more (if I remember correctly) plus the (possibly) higher failure rate means that there is not much reduction of production cost to talk about.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I can see for sure why cellulose nitrate is expensive to transport, but it is not obvious to me why cellulose acetate (the new material) would be more expensive. Maybe wturber would know.
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LUCKYLOOP
Platinum Member Joined: 03/27/2013 Location: Pongville USA Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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Someone let us know when ZeroPong starts selling the 40P for the same price as Gambler three stars !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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ChichoFicho
Platinum Member Joined: 06/24/2009 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 2118 |
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I have about 500 of the old balls and, so around 2019 but then again they might change the ball again till then.
Edited by ChichoFicho - 07/28/2014 at 3:52pm |
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suds79
Silver Member Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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I probably will begin playing with the new balls exclusively pretty much immediately as soon as an order I just placed comes in.
Unfortunately, I'm dealing a bit with a nagging knee injury so I am not sure if I will be playing in a fall tournament or not that I was originally planning on. I'm assuming that one will be with the old celluloid ball. After that, I'd imagine any tournaments I might play in, really looking at 2015, I'm assuming are going to be with the poly ball. So I want to get acclimated now.
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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In an earlier discussion, it struck me that I didn't have a clear understanding on the future direction of the celluloid ball - simply put, when exactly will the celluloid balls be phased out?
So I did a quick investigation by getting in touch with ITTF and a major TT manufacturer. The end result? There are currently no plans to phase out celluloid balls - they will still be manufactured and ITTF will continue approving celluloid balls. |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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Nonetheless, once the pro's start using plastic, retailers might as well sit their celluloid balls on the shelf next to their 38m's hoping for future collectors or nostalgic value.
Edited by cole_ely - 07/28/2014 at 10:46pm |
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cole_ely
Premier Member Joined: 03/16/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6898 |
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In fact, the choice of ball by ittf tournaments will go a long way to determining which ball emerges as the "nittaku" of plastic balls. I would imagine the deal to get their balls used in the next olympics will be pretty lucrative.
Edited by cole_ely - 07/28/2014 at 10:23pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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You must mean celluloid... I still don't understand why why people don't realise some people don't realize that all that needs to happen is for pro tournaments to no longer use celluloid. If that never happens, celluloid survives. Otherwise, it dies. Edited by NextLevel - 07/28/2014 at 10:52pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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My guess is it will be Nittaku. Their plastic ball is better as things stand now. |
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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@Baal,
Will you make a complete switch to plastic when the Nittaku made in Japan balls come out, even though celluloids aren't getting phased out? |
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GMan4911
Silver Member Joined: 08/31/2012 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 830 |
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The club that I play at supplies training balls so I will be exclusive when the club switches over.
I don't even use 3 star balls unless I or my opponent use our own and since the club doesn't have barriers between tables, that's pretty rare. |
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kakapo
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2013 Location: Mordor Status: Offline Points: 3430 |
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Since every club in Belgium is allowed to use either the new balls or the current ones (the only obligation is : you have to finish the match with the same model of balls which have been used from the beginning), I will keep on training with the celluloid ones. Some clubs will play with the poly balls and others, like mine will keep on playing with the old ones. What a mess in Belgium !
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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I thought DHS already had a monopoly on all that stuff. Will be pretty interesting though if there is truly open bidding/testing once again.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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hithithit
Super Member Joined: 07/02/2014 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 319 |
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+1 DHS are the official balls supplier for the 2016 Olympics and just about every major events for the next 2 years. That's the reason why I have purchased their plastic balls. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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That is the big question. I honestly don't know. It will depend on price (not yet established for Nittaku Japan but most likely expensive), durability (unknown for Nittaku Japan plastic, but bad for other plastic balls), and what my playing partners prefer, and the later will be determined by what most of the competitions in the US will be doing. And since DHS seems to have Having both kinds of balls still made, sold, and legal is going to make things very messy. I know Next Level thinks having both kinds of balls would make interesting diversity, like having grass and clay courts in tennis, but my experience playing with these things is that if they coexist with celluloid balls it will be a disaster Since there is no "worldwide ban on celluloid" I am playing with celluloid balls at the moment. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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There. Fixed it. On a more serious note, the events that used the balls would be different events just like hardbat is separate from ITTF table tennis. Plastic ball events vs. celluloid ball events. I don't expect this to happen as the ball that will be most commonly used will be what the pros use and what the manufacturers make widely available with that in mind and there seems to be a desire to move away from celluloid for whatever reason.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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The clamor for extra events based on the type of ball is so loud I can't hear it. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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It would naturally exist if the ITTF didn't regulate things so strongly. And one event might end up dominating the others. Do you think that the 38mm ball wouldn't be in use today if not for the fact that the ITTF did away with it?
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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