Thomas Keinath on plastic balls

Baal wrote: If they are trying to reduce Chinese dominance, this is insane.  All rule changes favor the Chinese.  It doesn't matter what they are.

Edited by vvk1 - 07/30/2014 at 10:09am

Chinese players will adapt of course, but there is chance they will achieve this by switching to non-hard- tacky rubbers on fh side, to have better hit-through game. Imagine how much more money this will bring to butterfly and other hungry companies... china has really lot of registered players. Potential financial gain is worth risking of destroying the game.

It is really hard to predict what equipment changes will work best with these new balls.  You actually have to try a few things just to see.  I have no doubt that CNT already have a solution well in hand.  I for one doubt they would give up the classic tacky forehand topsheet but I could see how they might go for faster sponge. 

It seems to me that the issues are:

1  You are going to need to find a way to generate more spin

2 You also need to compensate a bit for the slower speed of the ball through the air

3  Whatever solutions you come up with to deal with problem 2 risk eliminating too much arc on the ball which could be bad.

4  You don't want to change feel of the setup too radically either.

So how do you manage this?  Faster blades?  Grippier topsheets?  Faster sponge?  Change in pip structure of topsheet?  Better boosters?

Only way to know is to try some of these things. 

lineup32 wrote: Natural for players use to a spin dominated game trying to create the same spin/speed with different equipment, I am sure manufactures will provide some relief for a PRICE! One group to watch in this transition is the U12 player who has had private coaching, endless summer camps and developed a solid looping game by 9 years old, how will they react to this change and will they wish to continue with a new playing style. I play some of these kids and they get frustrated  fast and can lose interest if its doesn't go there way.  Lots of smaller players  U12 in various clubs but the drop out rate looks high as they move into middle and High school.

Baal wrote: .............  Loopers are not about to go extinct!

Agreed, topspin won over the backspin oriented game long ago and it wasn't solely due to equipment.

I have to say, the more I play with the Joola 40+ the less I like them. They are really messing up my timing and all my instincts for judging trajectory when I am away from the table are wrong since the damned things bounce so low.

Baal wrote: I have to say, the more I play with the Joola 40+ the less I like them. They are really messing up my timing and all my instincts for judging trajectory when I am away from the table are wrong since the damned things bounce so low.

OooOoOoooOOOppppssss

Now we think the same ...
That is one of the reasons I think with these balls lower skilled players have advantage VS more skilled players as nothing works well for the players who have developed their game with years and now everything is different, so their muscles can't produce the needed power, spin and speed. Totally different game.
Some people wrote in their first impressions they like the new ball, but that means they are playing for a day or two. Or they are just beginners and they have no experience. I have no other explanation.
My hope is these balls to be changed as soon is possible enough to be playable.
The current stock I tested (Tibhar and Xushaofa poly balls) are better for using for some other purpose, but not and table tennis.


Edited by kolevtt - 08/01/2014 at 8:38pm

Anyone know if any of the regional tournaments in the US are moving to using the plastic ball soon?

AcudaDave wrote: the new Plastic balls suck! I played a while with another 2200+ player with the new Joola plastic ball and neither one of us liked them. The spin was considerably less and the speed as well. I think the main reason the ITTF is looking at changing to the new plastic ball is money $$$. There will be a big change in the game if we really do switch to this new ball. I give them a big thumbs down..

lineup32 wrote: slevin wrote: Anyone know if any of the regional tournaments in the US are moving to using the plastic ball soon? USATT committee  mentioned in its May minutes that the Open and Nationals would use the 40C.   "Meetings with ITTF and Youth Olympic Games Status Mr. Babuin and Mr. Lee attended recent ITTF meetings held in Japan. Mr. Lee  made several recommendations to the Equipment Committee which were  approved. Mr. Babuin commented that the new “noncelluloid” ball is being  manufactured by three companies in China, one in Japan, and one in Germany.  However, it is expected that the celluloid ball will continue to be used at the  upcoming U.S. Open and Nationals."

Who is that single manufacturer in Japan, Butterfly or Nittaku?
I suspect that it is Butterfly.

NextLevel wrote: It's definitely Nittaku.

That I find very surprising. With Butterfly's history and R&D facilities, I thought that they'd definitely be producing a version.



Edited by Tinykin - 08/02/2014 at 8:21am

I have always rated Butterfly at the top for their balls when compared to DHS, DF, Joola and Donic.
These are the ones supplied by tournament sponsors over here.
I have a few Nittaku but not enough to compare. But I know several players who swear by them.


Edited by Tinykin - 08/02/2014 at 1:49pm

Baal wrote: A few things about these balls that are strange.  You have to constantly remind yourself to wait, to not rush, wait for the ball to come to you.  But at the same time, when you drop back you have to be prepared to move forward quickly because these balls don't come out as far and dead or slow balls drop like a rock. But just forcing yourself to stay closer doesn't seem to be the answer because you just end up not having any leverage on attack.  I think we will all need to practice front and back movements more than we do now.  You need to be cautious about when to go all out on a third ball attack too, because the ball may come back.  The feel for returns of serve is strange too.  The low bounce is really annoying I have to say, but I suppose we will all eventually get used to it.  You have to stay low hitting these balls even more than now, it really punishes any lapse in that.

Yes, here is the truth. I tested the new Tibhar poly ball in a game for points with lower skilled player than me. I played with classic defense style, using a paddle from 60's (Harvard conical thin handle and big head with double placed OX textile rubbers with orange pips out, something like Barna's paddles).
What I can say here - with the old balls I beat that player easy 3:0 under 5 points each game or around this result. Impossible to lost a game. The rallies are often finishing after 3-4-5 hits.
That player is playing double attack style with carbon blade and inverted rubbers, a true two winds looper and drive - smasher, not so good as quality of the strokes, but very experienced veteran, playing table tennis regular more than 30 years.
So, what happened on the table with the new ball I will share it now - I was surprised how easy he is looping each ball, no matter my efforts in chopping. I tried different kind of chopping, different angle of the paddle for example to change the level of spin, nothing works. I was just smashed and I was forced to run a lot in all directions. I just lost my power in legs very fast, because each rally often was more than 10 balls, the less spin and speed of the ball made the things MUCH MORE EASY for my opponent, as he had enough time to move correct himself and prepare for the next hit, while I was forced to make incredible savings up to the end of the game.
Also he was able to smash more of the balls directly because the lack of spin. He was so happy at the end

At the end of the game my opponent/partner just said : Xa Xa Xa! Do you want one more game? Because he saw I can't take a breath and I am really tired, much more easy to play with me...
Of course If I am playing with the two inverted rubbers he is not so thankful to ITTF and their new most GENIUS idea with these balls, but also happy.

Next - he asked me where are Joo and Koji, if they are still playing, because it will be pleasure to meet them with the new balls, he said laughing  

He really noticed I can't produce so high spin impossible for loop with his own muscle skills with this new Tibhar poly ball, also he noticed the longer rallies, the increased work with my legs I am doing during the games and the faster loss of power I felt by myself, that made me more slowly at the end and more easy for him to continue placing left - right- left - right. It was not any problem to combine shortly pushed balls with a loop next in the opposite direction I am placed at the moment after receiving a very strongly chopped ball. With the old balls this is impossible, usually he can't return.

I am not sure about the future of the defenders. My prayers will be for them all

The more heavier ball with lower jump and less spin is not a good idea for that style. The things are going triple more harder for defenders now with these balls.
Only push blockers and pips-out drive-smashers will be happy I think, but after many trainings to understand the timing and jump of the new poly ball.

There is no doubt I won't think for any long pips after January 2016.

Baal wrote: A few things about these balls that are strange.  You have to constantly remind yourself to wait, to not rush, wait for the ball to come to you.  But at the same time, when you drop back you have to be prepared to move forward quickly because these balls don't come out as far and dead or slow balls drop like a rock. But just forcing yourself to stay closer doesn't seem to be the answer because you just end up not having any leverage on attack.  I think we will all need to practice front and back movements more than we do now.  You need to be cautious about when to go all out on a third ball attack too, because the ball may come back.  The feel for returns of serve is strange too.  The low bounce is really annoying I have to say, but I suppose we will all eventually get used to it.  You have to stay low hitting these balls even more than now, it really punishes any lapse in that.

Sounds like what one would expect playing against anti.