Ariel Hsing FH Loop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUwsDZaDAY0

Notice the quick jerk and stop motion at the end of AH's 2 loops. It occurs well after contact has been made in both instances. Does it serve a purpose? Is it an idiosyncrasy or technical flaw?

1st one is an opening loop against (looks like a heavy chop), and follow with a smash.  Such a beautiful combo.

actually, it's not so much as a 'quick jerk and stop' motion 

in2spin wrote: actually, it's not so much as a 'quick jerk and stop' motion  as it is - 'returning to neutral'.....where she would have the ability to play either fh or bh - depending on the answer from the opponent pretty good, actually :)

LXX:http://youtu.be/4PbzjimWIq4?t=1m10s

V-Griper wrote: IMO they are generating a lot of upward momentum to lift the underspin ball so it looks like a momentary tensing of the muscles to keep them from popping up. LXX is doing it to but it looks smoother. However AH put more energy into the the shot as you can see by how much upper torso turn she does on the back swing so she has more upward inertia to get under control. Seeing AH live at college nationals I think her stroke is fairly standard.

I donno, to me it looks like LXX's shot is a lot more spinny, despite AH putting in more effort.

1. Smoother motion almost always means more efficient use of energy.
2. Compare the rewind prior to the stroke, LXX is way behind her knee, AH not so much.
3. Compare the instantaneous acceleration just prior and during the shot, LXX is like an arrow
4. LXX is naturally taller so she already have longer arms. Now compare the arm posture, straight long arm vs very much bent + shorter arm.  

popperlocker wrote: ...Girls have milk jugs and curves so it's not easy to accelerate their full body nor do I think it's efficient to do so...

You say it like those assets are a bad thing

Edited by DistantStar - 08/27/2014 at 11:39am

TTFrenzy wrote: First of all it is slow motion and somehow gives you the idea that she does that on purpose "stopping" the follow through, a long time after contact. Modern technique in the past years has more science and physics into it. Actually what she does (and almost all of the pros with good technique do) is that she accelerates slightly before contact but mostly during contact, and after the contact is made she lets immediately loose making it look like she is "stopping" the movement.

I see a bit of additional acceleration just prior to the "arresting" of the swing. It's that additional acceleration (I previously referred to it as the "jerk"), which seems to occur long after contact has already been made that perplexes me, not the "arresting" of the swing. To me, the additional acceleration is even more obvious in her second loop.

The "arresting" of the swing seems to be a common stroke feature among players when they want to emphasize brushing of the ball. I've heard Chinese commentators refer to this technique as "quick stop".

kurokami wrote: ... lol too much overanalysis. she's just returning to neutral.

+1

TTFrenzy wrote: racquetsforsale wrote: TTFrenzy wrote: First of all it is slow motion and somehow gives you the idea that she does that on purpose "stopping" the follow through, a long time after contact. Modern technique in the past years has more science and physics into it. Actually what she does (and almost all of the pros with good technique do) is that she accelerates slightly before contact but mostly during contact, and after the contact is made she lets immediately loose making it look like she is "stopping" the movement.  I see a bit of additional acceleration just prior to the "arresting" of the swing. It's that additional acceleration (I previously referred to it as the "jerk"), which seems to occur long after contact has already been made that perplexes me, not the "arresting" of the swing. To me, the additional acceleration is even more obvious in her second loop. The "arresting" of the swing seems to be a common stroke feature among players when they want to emphasize brushing of the ball. I've heard Chinese commentators refer to this technique as "quick stop". I dont see any additional acceleration after contact has been made. If you want to somehow "stop" the follow through you do it because you wanna come back to you ready/neutral position faster, not because you can emphasize with  spin by "arresting" your swing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPxU6PLHmf0

KK is playing JSH, so KK is looking to hit with his FH as often as he can. KK is not playing close to the table and he knows he'll probably hit a forehand on the next shot. Time after time, he arrests his FH swing to brush loop until he gets a chance ball to attack with a full swing and follow through. Does he do it because he's pressed for time and needs to return to neutral faster?

I wonder if you are still trying to work out how XX does such a smooth stroke vs underspin. 

V-Griper wrote: I wonder if you are still trying to work out how XX does such a smooth stroke vs underspin.

I'm not. I don't spend any more time investigating these topics beyond posting here and seeing what others think. There's KK's laborious way of brush looping JSH's chops, then there's XX's, shall we say, superior way. I loop my own way, but when I see others loop differently, more efficiently, I'm intrigued. That's how I learn and potentially improve.

racquetsforsale wrote: TTFrenzy wrote: He does not arrest anything in my opinion. His focus is to place the ball with spin untill, as you said, finds a chance to finish the point. The upwards motion is accelerating during contact, I dont see any "short stop" that is forced by KK on purpose, there is absolutely no need for that. His strategy is to safely pass the ball over the net with spin and placement until he can finish the point hard. To achieve that he needs upwards "snap" motion KK is away from the table so he could try harder/longer swings if he wanted to, when u put pressure on a defender u have plenty of time to come back to neutral position, KK's example is a different thing from ariel's, although their strokes look similar they are not.  KK in certain occasions loses contact with the ground after a shot, and ariel doesnt.  I hope you are not comparing these two to reach a safe general conclusion, cause different situations handled by different players, require different/unique strategy and technique You describe it as a snap. To me, it looks snappy because they arrest their swing. What safe general conclusion are you implying? Please describe the differences in their stroke mechanics.

TTfrenzy,

Thanks for your responses.

When I say arrest, I'm referring to arresting the follow-through, not arresting the acceleration during contact. KK in the video doesn't arrest his follow-through (his swing is less snappy) when he loop-drives. His swing when he brush-loops is snappy.

You explain that Ariel snaps only to return to neutral quickly. I contend that the snap is also part of the swing mechanics that some players use when they concentrate on imparting heavy spin or overcoming heavy incoming spin. I use KK's snappy brush loops against JSH as an example.

You don't see the acceleration long after contact in Ariel's first loop. Fine. I'm not saying there is, just that it seems to me there is. In her second loop, to me, it seems that long after contact, her hand suddenly speeds up, just before she arrests her follow-through.

racquetsforsale wrote: Another example a snappy swing when brush-looping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpXuiYap94 Again, to me, ZJK's swing seems more tense when he brush-loops. I attribute this to his arresting his follow-through. When hitting that one loop-drive, he follow-throughs more freely. Why doesn't he snap when loop-driving the same way he does when brush-looping? Or, vice versa, why doesn't he follow-through more freely when brush-looping the way he does when loop-driving? I'm saying that the snap serves a primary function, other than to facilitate returning to neutral.