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Yinhe Big Dipper - Review |
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ZApenholder
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Posted: 09/18/2014 at 8:01pm |
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My first review (did this around 1 week ago)
Been waiting for my stock of Big Dipper to arrive, as I am looking for an alternative for the H3 on my forehand. One of the things that caught my eyes was the blue sponge on the black rubbers (red rubbers has bright yellow sponge). The packaging: The packaging is of high quality. Something totally different to previous Yinhe rubbers. Comes in a clear wrapping, followed by the white package/covers - much better quality than other Yinhe rubbers: After taking out the rubber from the clear package and white cover, the rubber itself also came with a seperate clear package. The topsheet has another film (as per normal Tacky rubbers), and the sponge has another film (just like previous Yinhe Maxtense rubbers). This rubber also comes with a rubber protection film (just like previous Maxtense rubbers) The top sheet quality is very good, the print of the label is better and clearer than previous Yinhe Maxtense rubbers (moon, sun) The blue sponge is similar in colour to the DHS blue sponge. I notice the Big Dipper (black) and Moon Speed (black) has the exact same blue Maxtense sponge. So the only differences is the hardness level. Maxtense is supposedly be a Tensor like sponge. It was difficult to take the correct colour of the blue sponge due to lighting, the bottom one is the best I could get to and near perfect The Rubber Yinhe Blue Dipper, Black, 39 Deg, Max (it is available in 38, 39 and 40 Degrees) 68grams uncut Blue Maxtense sponge (factory tuned) RRP from Yinhe is +/- USD$25 The topsheet is not as tacky as the commercial H3/TG3. It can only hold the ball for a split second. The top sheet is extremely grippy (due to the slight tack) but not sticky tacky. The feeling is like a provincial version H3 rubber. Which means the stickiness (or rather lack of) does not stop the acceleration of the ball The bounce test with the bat on the table is similar to any other hard sponge Chinese tacky rubber - few bounces and the ball is on the rubber. Doing a spin test, I could get great grip into the sponge and produce great spin. Testing Review: Equipment Blade: Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive (Cpen) - 94 grams FH: Yinhe Big Dipper, Black, Max - 39 Deg sponge - 44 grams (cpen cut with 1.5cm gap) BH: Andro Hexer+ (old rubber), Red, 2.1mm - 38grams (cpen cut with 1.5cm gap) Total weight - 178grams Warm up and first impression My first impression was - huge catapult effect - It didn't feel like a Chinese tacky rubber. It took me around 5 balls before getting the ball onto the table. First five balls, my first touch made the ball go 1meter off the table (I normally use H3 or TG3 on the forehand). I had doubts that this is a 39 deg sponge, feels more like 36 deg. Maybe it got to do with the factory tuned sponge. FH Top spin After gettting used to the pace of the rubber, I was able to generate powerful top spin forehand shots - having high spin and power behind the ball. As per my previous review above, there isn't a lot of tack in the top sheet (I will explain further), but with a power shot, I was able to grip deep into the sponge and release the ball with extreme precision and spin. The feeling of this sponge is similar to DHS Provincial and more leaning towards National sponge! I'm sure the pretune effect is making it so great, so I actually want to test one without the tune, so I will need to wait a couple of weeks and remove the layer at the bottom and test again. Yinhe told me, they will be making "provincial" version of this rubber, I can't wait for that. FH Arc During warmup, the arc was huge - because I wasn't able to control the rubber yet. But once I was able to control the rubber slighty better , I could generate low arc and high arc - depending on my bat angle and contact point (of the ball arc) This feeling is the same with a boosted H3 commercial or provincial H3, just below national H3. It is very easy to use (a bit too fast and powerful for my students though) BH Cpen Traditional block I didn't try a SH backhand, or Cpen RPB (Didn't have enough time as I was doing all this in a coaching session) The traditional block (passive) arc was quite high, but with a power added traditional block, the arc can get pretty low and more tricky for the opponent. Again the same feeling as a boosted H3 commerical or prov and just below nat H3 rubber. I do believe this rubber can work for RPB or normal shakehand play. Service I wasn't used to the big catapult effect, as most of my serves was eating too much into the sponge, thus pushing the ball long. My spin was not as powerful as my H3, but I have to say, service is the most difficult part of the game to master, so I do believe if I had more time to use this rubber, I am able to control it fully. At the moment, I can only control it 50% and able to do ghost serves, down the line on the white line and side spin onto the base white line and off the right hand side of the table. Long serve was very easy to do, but overall my service quality, placement etc was not good. There is plenty of spin, so I don't have doubt that the rubber is good for service, I just need more time to train myself with it. Short Balls/Chops Getting the ball on the bounce (short balls), I manage to use only the tack of the topsheet and only using the sponge when required. So this is like 2 gears - soft sponge and hard sponge basically. My placement was great, and few times my opponent only got there after the second bounce (wide fh short). Placement - great, spin - almost great. Chops. I did some underspin feeding to my students. Extreme spinny. I can use only the top sheet tack or also can eat deap into the sponge. If I go deep into the sponge, my students will net the ball with a top spin shot (didn't adjust in my change of action). I did notice that my deep into the sponge feed, to shoot out faster and longer - same as a Tensor rubber So I think I need to serve with this "2 gear" action - Topsheet with little sponge, or with lots of sponge. But so far for both chop and service - I do wish for a bit less catapult effect. Conclusion. I think the sponge is too soft for a rating of 39 Deg. I actually want to try 40 or 41 Dec, or 39 with no tune. The top sheet is just perfect - not too tacky and feels like a provincial H3 top sheet. It also has great grip due to a pretty elastic top sheet - what makes this nice is that one can use the tack when required (short movement or just contact the top sheet), or go further into the sponge and grip the ball like a Tensor rubber and when doing that, you have a best of both worlds (slight tack + tensor like sponge) I think this rubber is great for players who want tacky rubber but on a softer sponge, or Tensor like sponge. Or Euro style game, but want a Chinese like forehand or play. Best of both worlds and I didn't even know such rubber exists. The marketing of this rubber states this is a forehand rubber, but due to the soft feel, I would say, this can work on the backhand too. Also the rubber is not heavy compared to a H3 (50grams vs Big Dipper of 44 grams cpen cut). My rating of the soft feel is medium - medium hard, or around 36deg - same as Tenergy 05 +/-. Also note, this is designed for the new ball. And I have notice much more spin from a topspin game than that of a regular H3 boosted (all other new poly rubber state more spin....I haven't tested other rubbers yet, so maybe if true, this is a pattern). For example on the more spin, my student uses a TG3 Neo, and tried out my setup. I was choping with a TSP P4 Curl on a TSP Balsa 3.5 (Def+) and with the TG3 he was netting 50% of the balls. With the Big Dipper, he net less than 20% of the ball. I'm sure he will buy a Big Dipper tomorrow Few things to note: - I glued up the rubber on Friday, tested out today (Monday), so the rubber did "air" a bit. - This rubber is factory tuned, so the feeling will change once the tune weighs out. -The black rubber has blue sponge, red rubber is yellow. I'm not sure if the red rubber is similar at this stage. - I am a seller of Yinhe, so some may think I might be biased. I have to say, this rubber really surprise me and I will give it a few more tries and comment once I can control 80% of the rubber. I have a feeling I can move over from H3 to Big Dipper. - Oh, and the blue sponge is just way too cool Now I just like to nominate Yogi_Bear to get one and do a review too After 5 hours of testing (mostly blocking or multiball feeding) Rubin normally can block my H3 FH more consistently. He is struggling with the added spin and power. Please do excuse my rustiness. I don't train any more and this is like the first work out in a long long time Edit:
Pics not showings Can check out the pics with review here: http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?8709-Yinhe-Big-Dipper-Review Edited by ZApenholder - 09/20/2014 at 7:15pm |
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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sell me one!!! nice review by the way :D
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Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS
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ZApenholder
Premier Member Joined: 03/04/2012 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 4804 |
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not sure why my pics not showing.... In the preview it works, but after submitting it, I noticed it removed a "?" in the URL and thus displaying an incorrect link........ why is that Edited by ZApenholder - 09/18/2014 at 8:13pm |
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TurboZ
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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Taobao has it now and through an agent it can be had for $24 include shipping.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Great review Tony, sounds really good.
I've ordered mine (plus a sheet of Moon Speed) from tt-store.eu. Not arrived yet... |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ZApenholder
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Sweet, Hope you can share your feedback too on the Big Dipper If the sponge is indeed tensor like, then this may just be rubber that many people are looking for - Chinese like with Tensor sponge |
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ZApenholder
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Fatt, Imago, not sure if you gents can help
Are you able to edit my photos link? When I copy URL in, the photos under preview works fine. Once I submit, then the photos don't show and the URL has changed (missing a "?") Example Correct URL: Incorrect URL: https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10629810_781267448590846_9178952388114632105_n.jpgoh=ea0b5d18466cd73ea37e91cdd22da13e&oe=548EAB96 These are pictures from my FB page and same links work in other forums Edited by ZApenholder - 09/19/2014 at 7:47am |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I'm really looking forward to it. I'm a big fan of the original Moon and Moon Pro. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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PingPongHolic10
Silver Member Joined: 12/17/2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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I am looking forward to receiving my Dipper & Moon Speed as well!! Yinhe Moon pro has been my FH rubber since it came out=) it's not much different than the hurricanes/TGs. I also got some untuned versions of Dipper because I am afraid that they'll get bubble up easily (eg. Moon Pro - Fact. Tuned) Will have review & video when possible.
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BH-Man
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Yeah !!
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Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
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ZApenholder
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pics not showings
Can check out the pics with review here: http://www.tabletennisdaily.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?8709-Yinhe-Big-Dipper-Review |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Was away with the family over the weekend, but the rubbers were waiting for me when I got home.
Moon Speed looks a lot like the regular moon topsheet on a new, eyeball melting yellow sponge (this is a red topsheet). The topsheet labelling is different though, so there are probably some differences. Big Dipper has the blue sponge Tony has already mentioned. The topsheet is the interesting bit. It's slightly tacky, with a glossy appearance. Running a finger down it gives the impression of extreme grip. Feels like it could strip the skin off your finger. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ZApenholder
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Hehe, don't hurt your finger my friend lol I noticed the Moon Speed top sheet is more elastic than the old Moon (maybe check it after you cut that loose part off) What sponge hardness Moon Speed you got? I assume you got 38 Deg Big Dipper right? |
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AndySmith
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Since that last post, I've weighed, cut and glued them. You're probably right about Moon Speed - I remember the cut-offs from the original Moon being a bit brittle (for want of a better word). You could stretch them a bit, and then they just break. Moon Speed doesn't do this, but it does have quite a tight feel. It won't stretch like an elastic band, like some soft tensors will. Moon Speed stretches, resists, and then snaps back. The ones I got were Moon Speed Soft, and Big Dipper 38. I'm a fan of softer sponges anyway, so no worries. I have to say that I like the look of Big Dipper. Training night tonight, so looking forward to trying the setup out. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ZApenholder
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I don't know why, but I'm also excited haha, Hope you enjoy the Big Dipper as much as I did :) |
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AndySmith
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I just had a short 30 min session on the robot with them. I'm not sure about the feel of the Moon Speed. It seemed a little off/on in terms of gears, and the "on" gear is fast. Big Dipper felt very nice though. It's pretty fast, good spin, but felt really stable during flat hit exercises. Counters were very easy. It's got a really loud "crack" sound on hard hits, like breaking glass. BD seemed to be easier than H3 when switching between brush looping and flatter hitting. I did a bit of service practice when picking up balls, and I agree with you Tony - it's not as easy to produce heavy, short serves as H3. It doesn't have the tackiness, and faster wrist action tends to sling the service out long. Needs work. Robot sessions are pretty poor for working these things out though, especially for new models of rubber. Tonight's session will be far more useful. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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AndySmith
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Had a great session with Big Dipper last night.
I can't argue with any of the details Tony gave in his review. The main thing I liked is how easy BD is to use when being aggressive. Brush looping, driving, hitting - it all works well. It doesn't make any demands that you play in a certain way. I was caught out a few times by the speed. I tried to play as I would with H3N, and when I got a mid-table ball with little (or no) spin, I'd shoot the ball long at first. This was mainly when I was looping against block. With H3N, I'd just continuously loop hard, but BD has got a lot of extra power. In the end, it was (much) easier just to smash those balls. On the other hand, BD's speed and catapult gives it a big advantage over H3N (unboosted) from distance. I pulled off some good retrievals from awkward positions. I would really struggle with H3N in those scenarios. By the end of the night, I'd got a grip on serving with BD. Spin is really, really good. Keeping the serve short is just a matter of concentration. If the durability holds up, I'm probably going to make the FH switch to Big Dipper. It's very, very impressive. And really cheap for the performance. I wasn't so sold on Moon Speed. It's fast, with average topsheet grip. It would suit people who like Calibra, Boost, etc. I'm just spoilt with tensor grip and catapult on my BH these days. It felt like a good rubber for a block/hit/punch style, but it wasn't very forgiving on BH looping for me. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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*_strataras_*
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AndySmith you didn't tell us on which blade have you test it?!
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AndySmith
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As yes, good point. Nexy Peter Pan. Now dearly departed. SAD FACE. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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AndySmith
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After my good experience with Big Dipper on Monday night, I went straight into a match last night with it. Won all my games. I'm very impressed with how it plays in pressure situations. It's very stable, while being massively spinny when attacking hard.
Most of my errors were against a retriever, and I was sending the ball long on occasion. My mindset at the table is to use BD like I would use H3N, but BD's extra speed catches me out. Brush looping is almost the same, but BD's pace sometimes surprises me. I need time to break out of the habits I built up over years of H3N use, but this is definitely a rubber which is worth it to me. I shouldn't too long to adjust. Durability is the only real concern now. The topsheet looks a bit visibly worn already (6 hours of use now), although it still feels the same to the touch. If I can get 3-4 months out of it, it's a winner. It would be the answer to wanting something like H3N but with more top-end speed and better flat hitting behaviour (i.e. something like a boosted H3N, without all the faff). Of course, all of this is with the celluloid ball... |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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dual700
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Andy, how would you compare it to the good, old Red Sponge Haifu Shark II?
Spin and speed wise? Thank you
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AndySmith
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Very different to Shark - it's closer to Whale really. But compared to Shark:
BD is semi-tacky rather than just grippy. Slower in the short game. Probably about the same speed in higher gears. BD is more reactive to spin (while not being too difficult). BD is far more spinny, especially when brushing. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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dual700
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Thanks buddy, I will give it a try for sure!
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ZApenholder
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Great review Andy,
Same thing on my side, now it is a matter of durability and see how long the factory tuner will last. |
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AndySmith
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Cheers. I've ordered a few more sheets. Will be good to try a few different blades out with it. If it stays peachy for a few months, I'll be over the moon. A few years back I wanted to stay with H3N on my FH wing, but I just can't get enough out of it. Don't have the physical strength I used to have, and I don't want to faff around with boosters. I moved to tensors, but I miss the tacky grip in the short game, and I missed having a nasty brush FH loop. This seems like THE answer for me. I know my personal experience won't overlap with many people here, but if you want a faster, half-tacky alternative to H3N, this is well worth a look. Tony - thanks for your early reviews (I think I saw your post over at TTD first). I might have missed this one without your insight. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ZApenholder
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Yeah, I did the TTD review first, and then a week or so later, I add it here - which is a complete failure, as I can't get the pics to show from my FB URL and request to mods seems to gone unnoticed. Any ways, I am starting to worry..... why is your experience the exact same with mine? Why are you copying me lol :) I stop playing with H3 + Speed glue, came back 6 years later with H3 and no speed glue and didn't want to boost and struggled. Went to Tensor and came back to H3 with boost And now I'm happy with Big Dipper, wonder how many more others out there is like us |
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NextLevel
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The real issue for me isn't durability, it is quality control.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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AndySmith
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Another known unknown. I'll have 3 sheets of black 38deg to compare soon, so maybe that will shed some light. |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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ZApenholder
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Yinhe quality control on Moon, Sun, Mars to me seems to be decent. Of maybe over 300 rubbers sheets, I had one instance where a Mars packaging had a Moon rubber inside. Customer was happy about that lol So far, my BD and my student BD seems to be similar |
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bluehorseshoe
Member Joined: 06/11/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 62 |
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Does anyone know of anywhere in the US that sells this? I'd really like to try it.
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Feedback: Bluehorseshoe
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68077&PID=823122#823122 |
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