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American Hinoki Center Carbon Blade Review

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    Posted: 09/24/2014 at 1:14pm

American Hinoki Center Carbon Review

 

My background- I always think its relevant when I see reviews to know something about the player. Current USATT Rating is 1696. I’ve been playing table tennis 3 ½ years. I play between 1 and 3 days a week. I consider myself a 3 ball attack looper. My loop is of the Chinese variety (shakehand), since I learned from a Chinese penhold player who took the time to show me the stroke. My Forehand loop is probably better than my rating, my backhand loop is probably at rating and my short game is probably below my rating if that makes sense.

Racket Inspiration- I wouldn’t consider myself an EJ, but since I consider myself relatively new to the sport I became fascinated with the equipment and started collecting blades that someday I may want to play with. I probably have only played about 15% of the blades that I currently own. I’ve tried various combinations and I really like Hinoki Carbon blades. One blade that I wanted to own was a Darker BX-700 aka the Center Carbon. The blade has been discontinued and tough to find in my preferred straight handle. After researching a little I ran the idea by Kevin at American Hinoki. He was intrigued and said it was not a common design. I showed him some pictures of the blade I wanted to emulate and one of the suggestions was 3mm Port Orford Outers with a 2mm Carbon Plate in the center.  It’s not an exact copy of the Darker blade since that is 5 ply blade with a thinner carbon inner and this would be a 3 ply blade with a thicker carbon inner. But, I thought it would be a fun design and a cool blade to have in the collection.

Customer Service- I have had a custom blade experience with Ross Leidy and that was an awesome experience. I have more designs in my mind for Ross to do in the future.  I would say that my experience with Kevin from American Hinoki was equally awesome and quite similar. Both guys were very responsive to my ideas and questions and had helpful advice. With both custom blade makers we sent 15+ e-mails back and forth to reach my ideal design.  There was one aspect of the design that Kevin was not 100% satisfied with and he credited me back $20 of my money which goes a long way to the expectations he has of the quality of his product. I personally wouldn’t even have noticed the miniscule blemish unless he pointed it out. 1st class if you ask me!

Blade Specs-

Head Size- 155-149

Weight- 92 grams

Handle- STRAIGHT

Thickness 6.2mm

FH Rubber Tested- Sanwei T-88i (not Target)

BH Rubber Tested- Stiga Magna TC

Total Blade weight- 181 grams

Blade Composition- 2.1 mm Port Orford Cedar - 2mm Carbon Plate - 2.1 mm Port Orford Cedar

Speed- The blade is on the bottom half of Off. I would consider my Darker 7P-2A Carbon to be Off- as well as my 90 gram Joola Rossi Emotion and my 81 gram Acoustic. The AH Center Carbon is definitely faster than those blades. I recently played with an Xiom Ignito and Killerspin Diamond TX and it’s not as fast as those blades. The blade shines and is at its best when mid distance looping. Very comfortable from that distance, whereas my Darker 7p-2a and JRE are better near the table. The blade played best for me at about 4 to 7 feet off the table. My consistency from that distance is still developing because of the faster footwork I think is required from that distance, but I will definitely use this blade to work on that aspect of the game.

Spin- One thing I noticed about the blade is the heavy spin it produced. I use to be a college baseball player and some guys threw what we call a heavy ball. Not sure how to explain it, but the penetrating spin that it produced was definitely heavy. My best shot is looping underspin. And this blade does very well at that. Lots of spin and a high number of my loops were being blocked off the table, leaving my opponents muttering at their blade. Spin on serves was very heavy also. More underspin serves were being pushed into the net and more topspin serves were being returned long.

Control- The blade had lots of gears. It was capable of hitting fast smashes, heavy spin loops and very nice soft pushes. Any heavy pushes bordering on chop motion I would often send long. I would need to remind myself to use smaller simpler motions.  Short game is a weakness of mine and I noticed when I tried to add spin to my pushes I made more mistakes than normal. I think a more skilled pusher could utilize the different gears the blade is capable of.

Hardness and Feel- I would consider this to be medium. It was harder than the Darker 7p-2A and the Acoustic.  It’s feel is similar to a Joola Rossi Emotion what I feel is on the dullish side. It’s definitely not as hard as the Ignito which is extremely crisp feeling.  

One part of the blade that I did not like is that it just felt heavier than the 181 grams than it weighed. Most of my set-ups weigh around 180 give or take 5 grams. But for some reason it just felt heavy. I was catching the top edge of the blade on a lot of my loops which was telling me that I was slightly slower than usual.  I came to the conclusion that the handle wasn’t working for me and I’ll probably switch it out at some point. I think a 90+ gram blade handle probably needs to be thicker and maybe go with more of a rounder shaped handle.   Kevin had suggested a cork handle and I balked at that, and now I’m thinking that may have better.

Flex- I would say this was a medium flex blade.

Overall Synopsis- I had a a great experience designing a unique blade with a highly professional and skilled blade maker.  The blade is great for mid distance looping and produces very heavy spin. I’m not ready to crown this as my primary blade yet as it feels a little heavy in my hand my and my short game was not as strong as it is with some of my off- speed blades. I plan to use it while practicing my middle distance counter looping as it feels very natural from that distance and can concentrate on my footwork, but not have to worry about my angle and speed as much. I think my next blade design will be another Center carbon with thicker P.O.C. outers and a thin carbon layer in the Center so I can compare the performances.  Overall I'm very pleased with my blade and experience with American Hinoki and highly recommend Kevin to anyone seeking hinoki carbon blades.



Edited by Toprank - 09/24/2014 at 1:28pm
CURRENT BLADE- Ross Leidy White Lightning

FH- Haifu Blue Whale II

BH- Xiom Vega Europe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOG1C1AN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2014 at 2:58pm
Very interesting blade and great write up.

I would have thought that the carbon center was too thick to be playable.

I did this LOL, whe I read this line though, "I wouldn’t consider myself an EJ" Wink


Edited by LOG1C1AN - 09/24/2014 at 2:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 3:07pm
bump
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 3:12pm
2.4.2 At least 85% of the blade by thickness shall be of natural wood; an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous material such as carbon fibre, glass fibre or compressed paper, but shall not be thicker than 7.5% of the total thickness or 0.35mm, whichever is the smaller.
Sorry your blade not is regular Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 3:53pm
 


Edited by Toprank - 09/25/2014 at 3:54pm
CURRENT BLADE- Ross Leidy White Lightning

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BH- Xiom Vega Europe
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

2.4.2 At least 85% of the blade by thickness shall be of natural wood; an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous material such as carbon fibre, glass fibre or compressed paper, but shall not be thicker than 7.5% of the total thickness or 0.35mm, whichever is the smaller.
Sorry your blade not is regular Wink
 
Yes, I was aware of the rules and probably will not ever use the blade in a tournament. It's still a fun blade to play with in casual matches, practice with, and keep in my personal collection. Wink I thought it was an interesting blade and I wanted to promote American Hinoki, thus the reason I wrote the review.
CURRENT BLADE- Ross Leidy White Lightning

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 5:17pm
Nice review, How much did it cost? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 6:03pm
Originally posted by viva viva wrote:

Nice review, How much did it cost? 
 
Thanks. His prices range between $85 to $125. He gives you a discount if you write a review for him to post on his site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/25/2014 at 8:50pm
I also purchased a carbon blade from Kevin but the center carbon layer is  1.5MM and the outer layers are Western Red Cedar with a cork handle.  My blade runs about 5 7/8 thick X 75 grams, a fast blade with a compact head. I have had the blade a couple months and still evaluating it but  purchased it to try with new poly balls and will compare its performance with another blade when local clubs finally move to the new poly ball.  The cork handle is a dream, love the feel and ability to make minor changes with a little sanding.  My total setup with rubbers runs about 175 grams.  I am currently using Andro Rasant for the FH and Illumina 88 40 degree's on the BH..  
Overall I am happy with how the blade performs and its workmanship is outstanding.  I have not written Kevin  about the blade since I want to see how it plays with the poly balls.

Regarding the legal or illegal composition I don't see it as an issue with local and club play.  The blade composition issue problem is probably widespread I doubt the ITTF wants to open that door very far and my guess is that the manufactures fudge or outright lie about the issue to gain a competitive advantage but its difficult to know exactly what materials and in what percentages are in many of the popular blades..just saying
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/26/2014 at 11:14pm
Originally posted by Toprank Toprank wrote:

Originally posted by viva viva wrote:

Nice review, How much did it cost? 
 
Thanks. His prices range between $85 to $125. He gives you a discount if you write a review for him to post on his site.

Thank you !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2014 at 6:12am
Originally posted by andras andras wrote:

2.4.2 At least 85% of the blade by thickness shall be of natural wood; an adhesive layer within the blade may be reinforced with fibrous material such as carbon fibre, glass fibre or compressed paper, but shall not be thicker than 7.5% of the total thickness or 0.35mm, whichever is the smaller.
Sorry your blade not is regular Wink

0.35mm!! How does the ITTF measure that?
I have a TBS and using a crude method of Vernier scale plus a loupe.......I could not draw a proper conclusion.

Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2014 at 2:37pm
lineup or toprank,
how large is the sweet spot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toprank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2014 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

lineup or toprank,
how large is the sweet spot?


That's a good question. When I was testing it, I wasn't considering that aspect, but that is something I would add and consider in future reviews. The head is 155 x 149 so I wouldn't say the sweet spot is very big since head blade head size is sort of small. Proportionately it's probably pretty large, but since it was compact I didn't feel like it was large.

Hope that answers your question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/29/2014 at 10:47pm
Yes. I took into acct the head size. Just wanted to compare it to his WRC or similar.

Edited by tom - 09/29/2014 at 10:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2014 at 2:04am
Of course the sweet spot is a bit larger and it is evident when playing, I have the light thin version with the 1.5MM carbon in the center and Western Red Center for the outer ply's.  This is what makes my  blade interesting is the center layer of carbon stiffens the blade but it feels and sounds like a wood blade.   The compact stiff head makes brushing or flat heating very easy on or near the table with control plus it has a nice touch for any kind of soft shot.  Rubbers are critical as the blade even with carbon is not designed  for medium or far away playing yet it is very responsive and with the right rubber combination puts a strong stroke on the ball.   So basically the center layer of carbon gives the blade its stiffness rather then  balsa like the T-11 or having to build ply's upon ply's of very thin wood and glue.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2014 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Of course the sweet spot is a bit larger and it is evident when playing, I have the light thin version with the 1.5MM carbon in the center and Western Red Center for the outer ply's.  This is what makes my  blade interesting is the center layer of carbon stiffens the blade but it feels and sounds like a wood blade.   The compact stiff head makes brushing or flat heating very easy on or near the table with control plus it has a nice touch for any kind of soft shot.  Rubbers are critical as the blade even with carbon is not designed  for medium or far away playing yet it is very responsive and with the right rubber combination puts a strong stroke on the ball.   So basically the center layer of carbon gives the blade its stiffness rather then  balsa like the T-11 or having to build ply's upon ply's of very thin wood and glue.

lineup,  by arithmetic your outerplies should be 2.2.  are you saying with the Rasant and Illumina 88 it could play with power in mid to far?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2014 at 4:19pm
it is not built for distance play, a close to the table  and it still needs a strong FH rubber to be effective. 
It has nice attributes around the table but now that I have played with the compact blade I think my next blade will be a 10mm single ply compact head with cork handle, probably WRC from Kevin.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/30/2014 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

it is not built for distance play, a close to the table  and it still needs a strong FH rubber to be effective. 
It has nice attributes around the table but now that I have played with the compact blade I think my next blade will be a 10mm single ply compact head with cork handle, probably WRC from Kevin.  
thanks for the clarification, I played with the 9mm WRC, it is fast and spiny around the table and I did not find it lacking in the mid distance either
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