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2014 [17th] Asian Games [VIDEOS HD] |
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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The best and the worst performance: ML and XX vs Joo.
Best performance by ML & XX: ML: 11 - 9 and 11 - 9 (Joo got 9 points each for 2 games. That's darn close.) XX: 11 - 2 and 11 - 2 (Joo got only 2 points each for 2 games. No competition at all.) Worst performance by ML & XX: ML: He lost a game to JOO. XX: 11 - 7 (XX worst performance, but still beat Joo comfortably). =========================== Thanks to NextLevel and RPB23 detailed analyses why the matches ended that way. |
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skip3119
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sandiway
Gold Member Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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On the cctv5 coverage, the commenters said that XX has the best loop in the world against choppers. I remember earlier this year, one or two people on this forum claimed that XX's loop was weaker than his teammates (you know who you are). Same goes for comments about Liu Shiwen's short strokes. Reveals the fact the poster is low on understanding of the strokes and basically watches without seeing...
Sandiway
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assiduous
Platinum Member Joined: 05/01/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2521 |
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your personal attack is not an argument for or against my opinion, skippers. It is also kind of a cheap, straw-man strategy. You attack something that i don't claim. I know the women are about 1000 points higher rated than me so I would be lucky to get a couple of points. This has no bearing on the fact that their strokes make me want to staple my eyes shut and never watch female ping pong again. This is not a function of them being women either. I have recently watched a couple of women, one from vietnam and one from europe, who have very nice, full strokes. Names escaping me now but some of you may remember, links were posted here. What is even more weird, is the CNT women are coached by MEN, with excellent stroke mechanics. How do they end up with these ugly twitch-strokes is really a surprising to me.
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puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out
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109eh
Member Joined: 07/21/2011 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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See TT videos on http://www.youtube.com/user/109eh
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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LET'S LIVE AND SEE... Just communicated with a celebrity boy, Kirill Tarasenko 16yo, participant for Kazakhstam Noc at the Asian Game table tennis events. He confirmed that the ball in use was CHAMPION celluloid Korea-made. The ball to be scarcely found someplace on Europa-America market, but on Asian region markets only. I admire very much to see if XU Xin is good enough to gain a golden glory with hard plastic DHS as much as he did with celluloid mild-soft meterial. World Men's Cup oncoming next week will be an answer. |
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Fehrplay
Super Member Joined: 09/14/2014 Location: The world Status: Offline Points: 390 |
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Many great matches! Thanks guys!
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sandiway
Gold Member Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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Sigh... What looks like an ugly twitch-stroke to you is a very efficient and admirable stroke. They use their body momentum, excellent minimal backswing, and contact and control the ball very well. There is no big followthrough. As a result they can recover quickly and stay close to the table to press and deny the opponent time. And you know what? Their touch means they probably get more spin and speed than your average 2600-2700 player. And when they ramp up the rally speed, that 2600-2700 player won't be able to keep up never mind get more than one consecutive power loop off in time. Sandiway
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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assiduous:
I have re-read my post, I did not find anything that I attacked you. As one member here commented that you watched but you didn't see. Your skill level is just too low to appreciate how skillful those two women players are, how fast they are and how quick they recover after the stroke and their foot-work. I'll tell you, they are fast.
Edited by skip3119 - 10/05/2014 at 7:44pm |
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skip3119
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sandiway
Gold Member Joined: 04/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 1554 |
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And, I just want to add that you could consider Zhang Jike to have "an ugly-twitch" backhand by your standards. After all, his backhand stroke is often very short, efficient and precise close to the table. And yet his backhand is widely considered to be one of the very best ever.
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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+1 Zhang Jike has ugly technique(fh and bh) compared to Ma Long, Fan Zhendong, and even Liu Shiwen. But he's a physical beast, so he can get away with his sub par technique. Liu Shiwen's technique is on a higher level, but she's a midget and female. Everyone knows women's basketball is not as exciting and explosive as the men's, stop picking on them assiduous.
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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Sure, I mean, everyone here really knows they play very effectively. The European with "nice" strokes is probably the Romanian Elizabeta Samara. However, I hope to see her develop her game to a point when she can actually successfully compete with the ladies in question (although... she recently beat Fukuhara !). BTW, I lost today in a tournament match to a lady with really "ugly" strokes and ugly short pip 802-40 on her forehand... she was more consistent than I. |
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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TurboZ
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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I remember reading that Guo Yue was trained to play with man's stroke but end up retired early because of injuries.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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Does anyone have a video of Zhang Jike BH looping away from the table? I have struggled in vain to find/remember one.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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simon_xuan
Gold Member Joined: 08/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1305 |
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11th minute
http://youtu.be/ByUX0mOVjwg |
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RPB Rocks!
BTY Innerforce ZLC Cpen | DHS H3N Blue Sponge | Victas V>15 Extra Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=36695 |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14822 |
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Ah, the match of everything... but if that is away from the table, then I am a 2 winged mid-distance looper... On another hand, does anyone know why the used the celluloid ball (if igorponger is correct) for the Asian games? Would have been nice to see the plastic ball in use before the World Cup. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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TurboZ
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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Don't know the reason but commentator did say that this is the last game with celluloid balls so the winner has something worth remembering.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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About the "Lefty" argument:
Chen Chien-An is a lefty, he is a notoriously poor player against pips chopper. (Actually, all top players of TPE have problems with pips chopper.) Chen Chien-An (a lefty) played Muramatsu Yuto 3 times. He won the earliest match (took 7 games) but lost 2 most recent matches - both at 1 - 4. Not sure the "Lefty" is the answer that XX did tremendously better than ML (against Joo). But I respect you guys' opinion. |
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skip3119
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popperlocker
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1753 |
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I didn't like xu xin's cheating and stalling. I respect cheaters and stallers, nothing wrong with doing whatever it takes. However, it's not my cup of tea. I prefer to watch the raw passion and relentless attacking of Fan Zhen Dong. I am hereby a member of the FAN ZHEN DONG IS THE BOSS fan club!
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bbkon
Premier Member Joined: 04/19/2005 Location: Afghanistan Status: Offline Points: 7260 |
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so they played with the standard ball non 40+?
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jackwong23
Gold Member Joined: 08/14/2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1912 |
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xu xin the cheater. shame on you
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TurboZ
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Status: Offline Points: 1298 |
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True. Last game of the old ball so XX will be remembered as the last winner of the celluloid era.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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Comparing the performance between XX and ML against Joo,
XX may be called the "Pips Choppers' Killer".
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skip3119
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kindof99
Premier Member Joined: 02/07/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4215 |
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I wouldn't say that XX was cheating. It is hard to judge a ball is on the edge or on the side anyway. Stalling is annoying, but appears to be a legal tactic in the tournament.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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Joo Saehyuk has done very well in the Asian games, beat quite a few world top players.
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skip3119
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RPB23
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2014 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Take 'Pips' out of the sentence. He is simply a choppers' killer. Or, more generally speaking, he kills any one who doesn't play fast paced yet still consistent and powerful enough like top CNT members, which explains why he has been so consistently dominant against non-Chinese players cause they simply don't possess the combos of speed, consistency and power. Speed, consistency and power, in essence, are the modern-day pro table tennis players' recipe to reach the top.
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skip3119
Premier Member Joined: 02/24/2006 Location: somewhere Status: Offline Points: 8257 |
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RPB23 said: "Take 'Pips' out of the sentence.
He is simply a choppers' killer." ================================= Most, if not all, modern day choppers using pips (long of short pips) on one side, and inverted on the other side for FH attacks (or chops). There may be some, but I don't know them, who use inverted on both side to chop and attack. XX is a "Pips Choppers' Killer" seems to be an appropriate description. (I will not argue about this any more, if you want to have the "final say" that's OK with me. However, I am convinced XX is a "Pips Choppers' Killer".)
Edited by skip3119 - 10/06/2014 at 1:20pm |
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skip3119
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RPB23
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2014 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Agree. Any sports with referees, you can not label players cheater as ultimately it is referee's job to make a call. A player has the right to raise a question or challenge, but it is the referee who makes the final decision. Plus, the effect of that incident in the third game was moot as Fan won the game. This is analogous to legal system. Judges/jurors make the decision, not the prosecutors or defenders. Even lawyers who's job are to find loopholes in the law are not labeled cheaters.
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RPB23
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2014 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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Well, Joo also chops with his inverted side from forehand. So, strictly he is not 100% pips chopper. As a matter of fact, regardless one's equipment, if he plays as a chopper, XX just eats him for breakfast.
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rick_ys_ho
Super Member Joined: 08/18/2009 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 344 |
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Professionals often say that penholders have strong FH, and very often stronger than SH FH. A penholder should rely mostly on his FH. XX is a perfect example.
XX can deal with Joo's return more comfortably due to the defender's slow pace, which allows him to get into position to execute his powerful FH. However, XX will have much more trouble dealing with some players like, Kenta Matsudaira and Chen Chien-an, who do fast pace blocking and wide range replacement, XX's recovery becomes a problem. In this case, Ma Long has much less issues playing with this type of players. |
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RPB23
Super Member Joined: 02/23/2014 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 239 |
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To beat a chopper, most important attribute is the power that can penetrate chopper's defense. A penetrating power can really bring fear into chopper's mind as he is aware any moment, a big shot can finish the play. Second attribute is consistency. Choppers beating attackers most by consistency by signaling to them you are not gonna break my defense, thus, making attackers lose confidence and committing more errors. But, if an attacker is just as consistent as the chopper, that neutralizes a chopper's main inherent advantage. Third attribute is the control and placement (including angles), so it will make a chopper's life more difficult. XX beat Joo mostly by his power. Since he can really break down Joo's defense, he typically beat him with ease. ML beat Joo mostly by his consistency and placement, hence a lot harder way. Chen Chien-An (a lefty), lacks both power and consistency to beat Joo.
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