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Nittaku Premium 40+ balls (Japan)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2014 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

My very best compliments to DHS chemical staff.

The quality of plastic material has notably progressed by now. NO breackage of DHS40+ happened all along the matches of the recent Women's Cup
The newest batch of DHS plastic of September2014 proved to have the best durability and happy improvement of the ball ballistics.
THe DHS balls to celebrate are marked with production code XJAD


That is good news about DHS.  Hopefully the bounce in the XJAD batch is improved also because the balls from XFAD had a very low and somewhat inconsistent bounce.  It would not surprise me if the low bounce and the high break rate from those production runs are related, so I am looking forward to getting a chance to try some of the more recent ones.  I have been anticipating that they would improve (because there was only one direction for them to go).

An update about the Nittaku Premium balls.  We still haven't broken one.  I would estimate so far that their durability is similar to Nittaku Premium celluloid balls (bearing in mind that durability was never the chief selling point of Nittaku, it was roundness and quality play).  I find that they wear in a quite similar way, as the external face of the ball tends to get shiny with use.  The Nittaku Premium 40+ is a great feeling ball to play with but I wish they were cheaper.  Hopefully when there are more of them to be had the price will come down.  Also, if DHS can get their balls to the same standard of play, then Nittaku may be forced to lower price.

I don't care who makes the balls I use, I just want good ones, and more companies making good balls means lower prices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2014 at 6:29pm
For the first time we played tournament using plastic balls. We got 6 DHS***, 3 Donic*** and 3 Nittaku *** Premium. Impressions: DHS very bad, 5 of 6 were cracked during few minutes, Donic and Nittaku survived whole tournament, Donic was good but somehow "dumb" as players felt, Nittaku is the best very much like celluloid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2014 at 6:49pm
The Nittaku balls play excellently.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2014 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by dmras dmras wrote:

For the first time we played tournament using plastic balls. We got 6 DHS***, 3 Donic*** and 3 Nittaku *** Premium. Impressions: DHS very bad, 5 of 6 were cracked during few minutes, Donic and Nittaku survived whole tournament, Donic was good but somehow "dumb" as players felt, Nittaku is the best very much like celluloid.


Donic is made in DHS factory but each brand may have different standards for which ones they decide to sell or not sell with the stamp of their brand.  That is described here: http://www.ittf.com/stories/pictures/Plastic_Balls_Q_A.pdf

dmras, I have a question for you.  Somewhere on the box of the balls, if you still have them, there is a four-letter code.  The last two letters will be AD.  This code refers to the date of manufacture.  X means zero, and ther first two letters are the month, the next two are year.  So June of 2014 would be XFAD, July would be XGAD, etc.  This code is pressed into the box and is not always easy to see, or it may be by the bar code.  I am wondering if the Donic balls were of more recent manufacture than the DHS ones you had for your tournament?  What I am trying to figure out is if the balls coming out of the DHS factory are improving as time goes on.  Also, how was bounce of Donic 40+ compared to Nittaku Premium?  All of the balls I have seen from that factory or from Double Fish bounce quite low compared to celluloid, Nittaku Premium, or XSF.  I don't personally like that, although it bothers me less than it used to.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 1:55am
Sorry, I didn"t keep boxes. As for bounce I can check it as I still have 1 Donic and 2 Nittaku balls.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 2:00am
Just checked - both have the same bounce.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 2:05am
Are you using Nittaku Premium or Nittaku SHA?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmras Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 6:47am
Sorry, used to call it premium, of course SHA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 8:03am
I see.  OK.  In a few months when the Premiums are more generally available, try those.  You will like them even better!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 11:21am
This freakin' ball cost me a shot at winning an unsanctioned tourney last weekend... I was surprised they insisted on using it (I only did drills with it before, not playing matches).  A bunch of weird bounces killed my momentum (I was doing just so-so until the semis...alas).  Also, the ball bounces too low on most shots as usual.  Worse than 1-star Gambler celluloid.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 1:08pm
SHA or Premium?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickael Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 4:14pm
I tried nittaku premium today, they bounce higher and faster than any celluloid I tried. Very difficult to get used to from the first day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

SHA or Premium?

SHA. Up 1-0, 10-9 in 2nd set in the semis... My opponent went for a monster fh hook loop. The freakin' ball bounced STRAIGHT instead of curved and I missed the whole ball... WTF? In another instance, I made a super heavy chop...He misjudged the spin trying to push it back...The ball flew straight out of the table at me due to heavy spin. Then the ball decided to suddenly drop and hit the end line... Double WTF!!! Some piece of plastic $#!+ ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 6:21pm
Yes, I also find that the Nittaku SHA, as with all of the Chinese seamed balls, has inconsistent bounce behavior.  It's why I don't like them (plus breakage).  Until I see one that doesn't suck, I am going to assume that they all do.  I still hope they will get better soon. 

This is not a problem with XSF or with Nittaku 40+ Premium -- the one made in Japan, not the one you used at your tournament.  These are very predictable in what they do.  XSF feels a little softer and ball flight seems like it might be slightly larger, but it is no problem at all to switch from one to the other.  I find it odd though that Michael finds the Nittaku Premiums to be faster!  They are not heavier and are a bit larger in diameter than celluloid and I find the bounce height to be within the range that you get for different brands of celluloid ball.  A lot higher than seamed Chinese 40+ though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beeray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 6:51pm
Although I'm not as good as you guys, this past week started playing with the plastic ones a lot more. My club got a box of the Nittaku SHA 40+ a while back and I've pretty much avoided them entirely. There were three times in one match where upon going to shove the ball off the bounce, It bounced up completely over my racket. I was pretty dumbfounded. Something that seemed noticeably easier in just back an forth was blocking/hitting the heavier slower loops. I know compared to 38 you don't have to respect the ball much as it is, but I literally had zero respect for the spin on the ball and put it back a little too easily wherever I wanted after getting used to just the way it bounce. One other weird part to me is the feel- when the ball is on my racket I didn't feel the spin take as much as usual. It was sort of muted. I also had a heck of a time returning serve, and anticipating the bounce as I'm used to led to me whiffing balls entirely. Sometimes it sits up when you expect it to shoot out, and sometimes it doesn't come up when you expect it to. 

I don't understand it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2014 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by beeray1 beeray1 wrote:

Although I'm not as good as you guys, this past week started playing with the plastic ones a lot more. My club got a box of the Nittaku SHA 40+ a while back and I've pretty much avoided them entirely. There were three times in one match where upon going to shove the ball off the bounce, It bounced up completely over my racket. I was pretty dumbfounded. Something that seemed noticeably easier in just back an forth was blocking/hitting the heavier slower loops. I know compared to 38 you don't have to respect the ball much as it is, but I literally had zero respect for the spin on the ball and put it back a little too easily wherever I wanted after getting used to just the way it bounce. One other weird part to me is the feel- when the ball is on my racket I didn't feel the spin take as much as usual. It was sort of muted. I also had a heck of a time returning serve, and anticipating the bounce as I'm used to led to me whiffing balls entirely. Sometimes it sits up when you expect it to shoot out, and sometimes it doesn't come up when you expect it to. 

I don't understand it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 12:49pm
I am starting to suspect that Nittaku is having some issues with production in Japan since once again their Premium ball is back-ordered everywhere, including tt-japan and iruiru, where I got my original supply.  I tried to get more because I like them and will have to wait.  They can't tell me when they will get more.

The SHA version (made by DHS in China) is still available everywhere (but it's not a particularly good ball).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I am starting to suspect that Nittaku is having some issues with production in Japan since once again their Premium ball is back-ordered everywhere, including tt-japan and iruiru, where I got my original supply.  I tried to get more because I like them and will have to wait.  They can't tell me when they will get more.

The SHA version (made by DHS in China) is still available everywhere (but it's not a particularly good ball).
One reason, is no one wants to use the other crappy versions out there, including me.  Like you said, it's the only seamed ball that is following regulations, doesn't play like crap, and doesn't break after 1 minute. Nittaku Japan probably didn't foresee their competitors failing so badly. Resulting in wealthy people buying/preordering 1000 NP balls at once.  If I was young and hungry again, I would have ordered a 1000 to sell on ebay. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 8:36pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I also find that the Nittaku SHA, as with all of the Chinese seamed balls, has inconsistent bounce behavior.  It's why I don't like them (plus breakage).  Until I see one that doesn't suck, I am going to assume that they all do.


I guess this is your club, it matches your description given previously on this thread.

Could you please explain, why the Nittaku SHA was used at your tournament 3 days ago?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 9:40pm
Yes.  That is my club.  That was our tournament.  It was a success.  And yes, I hate seamed Chinese balls.  Now, as to your questions:  First, it is the type of ball being used at the majority of upcoming national tournaments in the US this season so it makes sense to you use it in our local events that are tune-ups for those important events. That is true even if I don't happen to like those kind of balls.  Why should our players be at a disadvantage when they are training hard for these events?  Second, the Nittaku Premium 3* balls from Japan, which would have been more to my tastes, are not available in sufficient supply for a tournament.  (we will see if they solve the supply problems in time for US Nationals).  So even if we had wanted to use them, it would not have been possible.  Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly of all, I really don't care what you think. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 9:55pm
I have used the Joola and Double Fish poly balls and like them both.  They are also cheaper and very durable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

it is the type of ball being used at the majority of upcoming national tournaments in the US this season


I have just gone through the first 10 4-star events listed on http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/Events. For 3 of them there is no information. As for the other 7 ones, the balls used are:

WESTCHESTER 2014 OCTOBER OPEN: JOOLA Premium 3 - star 40 mm balls

SOUTH SHORE SPORTS BUTTERFLY OPEN: not specified

2014 JOOLA NORTH AMERICAN TEAMS: JOOLA white Super P Poly 40+ balls.

BUTTERFLY THANKSGIVING TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPS: balls (orange) [orange can only be celluloid]

TRIANGLE 4 STAR DECEMBER OPEN:  white Butterfly celluloid 40mm 3-Star Premium

2015 BUTTERFLY AURORA CUP: 40 mm white 3-star Butterfly ball

2015 ARNOLD TABLE TENNIS CHALLENGE: white Butterfly celluloid

So, only 1 plastic at 7 tournaments. Does not look like majority to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

it is the type of ball being used at the majority of upcoming national tournaments in the US this season


I have just gone through the first 10 4-star events listed on http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tennis/Events. For 3 of them there is no information. As for the other 7 ones, the balls used are:

WESTCHESTER 2014 OCTOBER OPEN: JOOLA Premium 3 - star 40 mm balls

SOUTH SHORE SPORTS BUTTERFLY OPEN: not specified

2014 JOOLA NORTH AMERICAN TEAMS: JOOLA white Super P Poly 40+ balls.

BUTTERFLY THANKSGIVING TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPS: balls (orange) [orange can only be celluloid]

TRIANGLE 4 STAR DECEMBER OPEN:  white Butterfly celluloid 40mm 3-Star Premium

2015 BUTTERFLY AURORA CUP: 40 mm white 3-star Butterfly ball

2015 ARNOLD TABLE TENNIS CHALLENGE: white Butterfly celluloid

So, only 1 plastic at 7 tournaments. Does not look like majority to me.


The national tournament is the 5 star US National, which is using the Nittaku Premium Plastic.  Some events also use the plastic ball for the highest groups and the celluloid for lower groups (Westchester does, and my guess is that once the Butterfly plastic is available, the butterfly tournaments will follow).  The main reason why the Butterfly events do not use the plastic ball is that no butterfly ball is widely available yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Westchester does,


No. I quoted exactly "JOOLA Premium 3 - star 40 mm balls", no exception there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 11:21pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Westchester does,


No. I quoted exactly "JOOLA Premium 3 - star 40 mm balls", no exception there.


Mastermind,

It's one thing to believe everything you read on the internet.  It's another to question a seasoned tournament player in the USA who has actually plays in these events and for a couple of years has been in the top 20 most busy players in the USA (my arthritis has made it harder for me to keep up).  The bottom line is that I know what happens first hand- you parrot what other people write.

If you want, you can go to Westchestertabletennis.com and see their videos for the Open section and confirm that their last *Open* event used the Polyball, even though it wasn't listed as the tournament ball in whatever site you looked at.  I could provide the video, but that would just be going over the top for someone with a brain as parochial as yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 11:22pm
Perhaps I should have written the majority of upcoming national tournaments that most members of our club will attend, which in this case means the nationals and national teams. And I need to emphasize, "Mastermind", that I still don't care that you are outraged that we used a 40+ ball for our tournament. It is not something that requires defending.  (Also, we still haven't managed to break a Nittaku Premium 40+).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 11:41pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The bottom line is that I know what happens first hand- you parrot what other people write.


I quoted what the ORGANIZERS wrote, not just "other people".

So, it is your word against theirs. I trust them more on that. Others may decide for themselves.

But you've got the main idea, I guess. For the time being it does not look like majority of tournaments use plastic. It is just a tiny minority.

By the way, the fact that there are no Butterfly plastic balls to buy 4 months after they registered them at the ITTF might well be a sign that they know something what we do not know. Since they do not have their own production it would have been very easy to put a stamp on the DHS product like others do.


Edited by Mastermind - 10/21/2014 at 11:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I still don't care that you are outraged that we used a 40+ ball for our tournament.


I neither said I was outraged nor did I express outrage. Let's keep it correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/21/2014 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The bottom line is that I know what happens first hand- you parrot what other people write.


I quoted what the ORGANIZERS wrote, not just "other people".

So, it is your word against theirs. I trust them more on that. Others may decide for themselves.

But you've got the main idea, I guess. For the time being it does not look like at all, that majority of tournaments use plastic. It is just a tiny minority.

By the way, the fact that there are no Butterfly plastic balls to buy 4 months after they registered them at the ITTF might well be a sign that they know something what we do not know. Since they do not have their own production it would have been very easy to put a stamp on the DHS product like others do.


You can trust them more and be a fool for it.  My point is that when I say something, I have more than enough credibility since I have played at Westchester on multiple occasions and have clubmates who go there every month.  You have never been to Westchester.

For about 2 or so weeks before the formal announcement, I had been informed by friends who received emails that the NA Teams, which originally was going to use orange Joola Premium, was switching to Plastic.  Even after the email announcement, they failed to change this on their website for a while.

Stop being an idiot.  Don't pretend to know more about US table tennis than people who actually participate in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/22/2014 at 12:00am
Again, since the point was raised by our resident plastic ball troll based on something he read on the internet....

Our experience now is that the Nittaku Premium 40+ ball made in Japan has quite good durability, more or less comparable to celluloid balls.  This along with the excellent playing properties makes it the best plastic ball any of us have tried (and it bloody well ought to be for the price).  The durability is a good thing because my supply is small, they are back ordered seemingly indefinitely, and everybody wants to use them instead of the other plastic balls.

After spending some time with this good Nittaku ball, the XSF ball feels softer and a bit slower.  However, XSF is still a better choice than a Chinese seamed ball.
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