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Nittaku Premium 40+ balls (Japan)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 1:53pm
If the spin is cut down, long pips should be less effective.  Seems logical to me.  It's like everybody's using medium pips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

If the spin is cut down, long pips should be less effective.  Seems logical to me.  It's like everybody's using medium pips.


I will agree.  I have had very little training on the use of LP's and don't really use them as they are probably intended.  I primarily use them for return of serve.  Rarely for blocking (although I would really like to improve my blocking) and never for chopping.   Once we're past the serve I use them as an attacking rubber. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 2:50pm

actually, I think they were originally designed to hit with.  over time people developed the mush ball approach.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I was playing a young guy last week who in the last year or two has surpassed my level.  He is just too athletic, and he has been improving lately (he is hovering around 2200).  Last week, though, with XSF balls, I won.  First time in a really long time. A practice match so mostly meaningless.  Maybe a fluke result and may never happen again.  But I think the ball had something to do with it. 


Same thing with me and with Joola Super-P. I haven't beaten this clubmate of mine in a year or so - he is around 2200 and usually I lose 3-0 or 3-1. This time I beat him 3-2 with the plastic. He just makes more mistakes on spinny loops, or when he doesn't, they are not as dangerous as they used to be. I block them rather easily (feeling a bit embarrassed) and when the ball bounces on his side after the block the bounce is out of whack (as if I played with pips) and he often doesn't even want to attack it right away.

I am guessing though that after a year or so everyone will get used to that, and we will go back to usual rankings...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I was playing a young guy last week who in the last year or two has surpassed my level.  He is just too athletic, and he has been improving lately (he is hovering around 2200).  Last week, though, with XSF balls, I won.  First time in a really long time. A practice match so mostly meaningless.  Maybe a fluke result and may never happen again.  But I think the ball had something to do with it. 


Same thing with me and with Joola Super-P. I haven't beaten this clubmate of mine in a year or so - he is around 2200 and usually I lose 3-0 or 3-1. This time I beat him 3-2 with the plastic. He just makes more mistakes on spinny loops, or when he doesn't, they are not as dangerous as they used to be. I block them rather easily (feeling a bit embarrassed) and when the ball bounces on his side after the block the bounce is out of whack (as if I played with pips) and he often doesn't even want to attack it right away.

I am guessing though that after a year or so everyone will get used to that, and we will go back to usual rankings...

I don't think it's that simple, to be honest.  The problem is that that first ball after the spin shot is harder to loop drive with the new balls and that takes a lot away from the spin and drive players.  You have to be able to loop hard enough to get a quality ball that the opponent will pop up and that level of athleticism is sometimes beyond what older players will be willing to re-establish. The loss of spin and more importantly *height* on the ball makes attacking that second ball significantly harder.  The players who lose the least are those willing to reloop over and over again.  I am not sure everyone will get there in a year unless the DHS ball changes and bounces higher.


Edited by NextLevel - 10/23/2014 at 4:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 5:33pm
I'm really enjoying the new plastic balls contrary to everyone else I love that the seamed chinese ball dhs joola super p ect forces me to go for solid shots everytime rather than getting away with spin and feel, my game is improving and the ball is forcing me to play properly rather than rely on my touch, rating with celluloid hovers around 2300 haven't played a plastic tournament yet but looking forward to westchester this weekend

Edited by ttman - 10/23/2014 at 5:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by ttman ttman wrote:

............ the ball is forcing me to play properly rather than rely on my touch....... 

Did you really mean that??
I would think that the ability to add touch play to one's game is the sign of a very capable player.
All of us crap players find it relatively simple to bang the ball. To be consistently successful with touch play would put us into good player level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tassie52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 6:10pm
Offtopic:

Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

to address Mastermind's points (which he has managed to express a little more clearly elsewhere),
I guess you mean this one and this one.
Good grief!  I'm going to have to change my member name to Moron_from_DownUnder!  Embarrassed

Can you believe I've only just worked out that MasterMind here is Smartguy at OOAK???  Somehow I had assumed that there were two people brazen enough to label themselves by their own perception of their brainpower. 


Edited by Tassie52 - 10/23/2014 at 6:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/23/2014 at 7:50pm
Right, there are two people, you and me. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/24/2014 at 12:14am
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

Originally posted by ttman ttman wrote:

............ the ball is forcing me to play properly rather than rely on my touch....... 

Did you really mean that??
I would think that the ability to add touch play to one's game is the sign of a very capable player.
All of us crap players find it relatively simple to bang the ball. To be consistently successful with touch play would put us into good player level.

He's a powerful and consistent modern two-winged looper (well, sometimes, he is all out forehand, but that is a story for another day).  What he means is that "touch play" when a ball can be decisively attacked is laziness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/24/2014 at 12:47am
OK, I see that point.
Young players (<40yo) and >2300 is a bit beyond my feeling of empathyEmbarrassed.


Edited by Tinykin - 10/24/2014 at 12:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2014 at 3:10pm
well, today I played more with the same galaxy ball and didn't hate it nearly as badly.  Before I was playing on a kettler table.  It was really gritty, and in combination with the new plastic ball it was just way too much.

now, smoothed out and on a joola table, I found it much more tolerable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2014 at 3:34pm
First Nittaku Premium 40+ Japan ball broke today.  It had about 6 hours of hard play on it.  Unlike other plastic balls, this one seems to break more like celluloid, it doesn't fracture completely like the others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/25/2014 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

First Nittaku Premium 40+ Japan ball broke today.  It had about 6 hours of hard play on it.  Unlike other plastic balls, this one seems to break more like celluloid, it doesn't fracture completely like the others.


The Double Fish also broke like a celluloid ball. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AgentHEX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2014 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by haggisv haggisv wrote:

but I think with more use the lesser spin will become more obvious, which will obviously affect people... some more than others.


Too little spin was the reason why plastic failed back in 1980s.

I also noted inconsistent bounce when testing the XSF ball.

It is not that it is completely unplayable because of inconsistent bounce. I once stupidly bought cheap trainer balls with inconsistent bounce, the feeling was very weird, but you still can have some fun playing with them. Like who makes more mistakes LOL . Our sport should not go in that direction and it will not probably, I am sure next year the whole scam will be over.


Hey Mastermind, sorry to resurrect this (albeit hilarious) thread found via goog search, but what is your end-game with this?

Even when the prototypes were supposedly poor and you presumably dismissed them outright a mastermind should've figured they were only going to improve. The new balls are already quite similar to old ones and can only get closer which means their universal adoption is going to be a certainty. Surely it's obvious by now this crusade will only end in failure. Is your plan to then stop posting or continue to gripe and hold out against it (are there even any Reisman wannabes for the 40mm ball)? Either one seems a poor option. 

And Baal, now you know how I feel. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2014 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Back on topic. It looks like Nittaku stopped producing their premium 40+ plastic, since one can not order them. What could be the reason for that?


Evidently not.  I received some last week from Iruiru.  Not cheap.

My update with now about a month's worth of experience with the NP40+ is that they do have some durability issues that typically show up around the 5-7 hr mark. They discolor and the surface mars quickly. I would also say that durability was never a strong point of Nittaku Premium celluloid balls either but that is maybe small consolation given their ridiculous price.  When they break, they get a crack and remain remarkably playable in spite of the crack.  Strong smell of some organic solvent but not camphor on the inside.  Still a really nice playing ball.  Still ridiculously overpriced.  And now, we have never managed to break 12 of them in 15 minutes or whatever the number was our resident troll was bandying about.

I went back and forth on this a bit as to which one I actually prefer playing with but I have come to the conclusion that by choice I will actually play with XSF over NP40+ but am quite happy to use either one.  For price and durability XSF can't be beat.

I actually would go so far as to join Roundrobin in saying that I prefer XSF to celluloid. 

AgentHEX, I think Mastermind would fail the Turing test.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2014 at 11:08pm
Is anyone actually doing anything to improve availability of the XSF40+ and the Nittaku Premium 40+?
Can anything be done?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/22/2014 at 11:26pm
The balls aren't that hard to get. What would he interesting is if a petition could be organized to support their adoption. I have personally decided that after Nationals, I will only play DFish and XSF.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/23/2014 at 11:11am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The balls aren't that hard to get. What would he interesting is if a petition could be organized to support their adoption. I have personally decided that after Nationals, I will only play DFish and XSF.


Think of getting NP40+ as like ordering something from TTNPP.  You make an order to Iruiru, tell them you want some balls as soon as they get more in and be prepared to wait up to 4 weeks.  Probably that will soon improve.  But be prepared for severe sticker shock.

As for XSF and other excellent seamless balls that they make for other companies, they are not at all hard to find now and there is no wait at all and can be had for the same price as celluloid and last longer.  Paddle Palace doesn't sell them but many other companies do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fehrplay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:31pm
I am not satisfied with the quality on this ball, breaks so easy..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

As for XSF and other excellent seamless balls that they make for other companies, they are not at all hard to find now and there is no wait at all and can be had for the same price as celluloid and last longer.  Paddle Palace doesn't sell them but many other companies do.

Where do you get XSF poly for same price as celluloid?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOG1C1AN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

As for XSF and other excellent seamless balls that they make for other companies, they are not at all hard to find now and there is no wait at all and can be had for the same price as celluloid and last longer.  Paddle Palace doesn't sell them but many other companies do.

Where do you get XSF poly for same price as celluloid?


Here is a good price on the XSF balls. I have not purchased from this seller, but wanted to provide you an example. 144 balls for $150.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/144-Yinhe-3-Star-40-Poly-Table-Tennis-Ball-White-ITTF-Seamless-Xushaofa-/251698764888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9a6a5c58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZingyDNA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by LOG1C1AN LOG1C1AN wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

As for XSF and other excellent seamless balls that they make for other companies, they are not at all hard to find now and there is no wait at all and can be had for the same price as celluloid and last longer.  Paddle Palace doesn't sell them but many other companies do.


Where do you get XSF poly for same price as celluloid?


Here is a good price on the XSF balls. I have not purchased from this seller, but wanted to provide you an example. 144 balls for $150.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/144-Yinhe-3-Star-40-Poly-Table-Tennis-Ball-White-ITTF-Seamless-Xushaofa-/251698764888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9a6a5c58


Those are Yinhe balls, right? ARe they made by XSF?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOG1C1AN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by ZingyDNA ZingyDNA wrote:

Originally posted by LOG1C1AN LOG1C1AN wrote:

Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

As for XSF and other excellent seamless balls that they make for other companies, they are not at all hard to find now and there is no wait at all and can be had for the same price as celluloid and last longer.  Paddle Palace doesn't sell them but many other companies do.


Where do you get XSF poly for same price as celluloid?


Here is a good price on the XSF balls. I have not purchased from this seller, but wanted to provide you an example. 144 balls for $150.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/144-Yinhe-3-Star-40-Poly-Table-Tennis-Ball-White-ITTF-Seamless-Xushaofa-/251698764888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9a6a5c58


Those are Yinhe balls, right? ARe they made by XSF?


Yes, they are the XSF Seamless 40+ balls with a Yinhe label on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:02pm
Yinhe balls are made by XSF, as are ALL seamless balls.  I haven't tried the YH ones but since they are ITTF approved it is a good bet they are just rebadged.  Should be fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ckhirnigs113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2014 at 3:16pm
Best deal for the XSF balls I have found is at this link (with shipping included they were only $1/ball): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/three-star-plastic-table-tennis-ball-seamless-ITTF-approved-competition-quality/32227471045.html
If you buy more I bet they are even cheaper! I only got 18.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2014 at 6:35pm
Special thanks to our fellow mytt member roundrobin that sent these to me to try, I will be testing the Nittaku Premium 40+ balls on Friday.

So far I've briefly played with Joola-Super P and Nittaku SHA 40+ balls.


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