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H3neo Any boosted it |
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viva
Silver Member Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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Posted: 01/03/2015 at 11:00pm |
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Has anyone boosted H3 neo regular not the provincial version. Does it need to be boosted or is it factory tuned?
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IanMcg
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2011 Location: Somehere Status: Offline Points: 1151 |
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It would definitely make the rubber play more comfortably (easier spin and speed)
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viva
Silver Member Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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I know it would do it but have you done it ? or is it pretuned hence the neo ! |
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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I have done it. Yes Neo is pretuned (has been tuned by the manufacturer).
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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bananaphone17
Beginner Joined: 10/24/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19 |
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The neo is pretuned but it is weak and lasts for a very short amount of time so it would be better to boost it yourself
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Argothman
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2013 Location: The stars Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I boosted a old sheet with Falco Long. The rubber was older so the Neo effect was definitely worn off. Once it gest older it's pretty slow before boosting, only really useable if you don't hit very hard and just focus on spin. Boosting isn't a magic technique though; I put 2-3 layers on, and afterwards it was still slower than my modern tensor rubbers. However, it gets a bit faster and maybe a little spinnier, so if you like H3 I recommend boosting it.
Edited by Argothman - 01/04/2015 at 10:27am |
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Believer
Super Member Joined: 11/19/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 205 |
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The good thing about H3 Neo is that the top sheet lasts very long. I have boosted a 3 year old H3 Neo and it still plays very well. I use falcon booster. It may look not like new, but the playing characteristics remain the same. Granted, you may get a better tackiness with a newer sheet, but I prefer the less tack that makes the rubber plays faster. So yes, boosting H3 Neo is what I prefer.
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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The NEO series is not pretuned, it is just the name of the sponge upgrade from the classic versions of the DHS rubbers. There was a thread about it on a different forum that was confirmed by the DHS sales office:
That said I currently use the commercial 2.15 version from Paddle Palace because they have the freshest batch of rubbers (serial PADXG [July '14 or later] compared to other retailers that are sitting on stock from 2012 or 2013) as the newest official DHS distributor. It is an unspoken understanding that H3 NEO of any level and the majority of chinese rubbers must be tuned to play a high level offensive game. I tune my H3 NEO with 5-7 layers (5 for 2.2, 6 for 2.15, 7 for 2.1) depending on the sponge thickness and push it to the maximum legal limit to get the most out of it. If tuned well, all the versions of H3 play well and similarly with biggest difference being the topsheet tackiness and humidity resistance between commercial, provincial, and national. My favorite is the provincial 2.10 version from my old club in NY, but I save those sheets for the big tournaments .
Edited by schen - 01/11/2015 at 4:01pm |
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viva
Silver Member Joined: 02/17/2011 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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Thanks that helps a lot ! Do you use Dianchi? Falco or something else?
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Argothman
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2013 Location: The stars Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I think he's mentioned he uses something called 'Kailin oil.' I'm not sure quite what it is, but he says it's better than other tuners.
@schen, how many layers do you recommend for maximal performance using Falco Tempo Long? |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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That's right, I was introduced to Kailin oil through one of my coaches. Its the best booster after the yellow cap haifu oil which isn't available to us. Kailin is equally tricky to get because it's only available in China and nearly every place that has it even taobao agents won't ship it overseas because of china's shipping restrictions.
I used falco long before, and i think 3 layers is enough if you arent used to boosting, but if you want to give it an extra kick, 4-6 the same way i described works great for me |
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Argothman
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2013 Location: The stars Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Sounds good. The thing I find with H3 is that even if you boost it a bunch, it's often still slower than modern tensors :P
Also, two more questions. First how do you take care of your topsheet? Mine gets dusty, and it's really hard to rub the dust and junk out of it with water and a sponge. Second, what do you think about H3 Neo vs commercial? Considering you use Neo you must think it's better, but is there a significant difference in play when heavily boosted like that? Edited by Argothman - 01/11/2015 at 6:42pm |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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Well perhaps on a bounce test and medium-gear shots. But when it comes to really driving the ball hard, chinese rubbers are faster in the top-gear compared to tensors which have a tendency to peak after a certain point before even reaching some upper gears chinese rubbers can go despite being faster with a more passive stroke.
As far as cleaning goes, I stick to just breath and palm/forearm wipe. The oils from your hand and the sweat from your body does a good job of taking care of it. I never use water, cleaners, or protection sheets. Humidity is your enemy in table tennis, so I don't like the idea of wetting anything more than I need to, and on top of that I learned early on if you don't have a soft/pure water source your rubber will cloud up from mineral deposits pretty quickly and lose its tack. Cleaners work in the short term but alter your rubbers over time because most are oil/alcohol/ammonia based. Those trace amounts of liquids will be absorbed by the topsheet overtime with unpredictable effects from sheet to sheet. Lastly I was advised against using protection sheets by a couple of my coaches because it's better to allow the rubber to get acclimated to the climate its in. After a month of trying that, I realized they were right and I could notice an improvement in tackiness. Just putting your blade in a case is enough, as evidenced by many national-level players. If you watch full matches, at the end of the match all chinese players simply put their blades in their cases without any sort of protection sleeves. **an extra little trick shown to me by Shao Yu was to leave a sack of a desiccant of your choice in your paddle case (or directly on top of pips if you have them, may be overkill for smooth rubber) to absorb as much extra moisture as possible to keep things grippy!** I have commercial hurricane 3 neo on nearly all of blades nowadays and the methods I've been using have kept them in great condition even after a month of use! Edited by schen - 01/11/2015 at 7:37pm |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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Also, when I first discovered boosting I resisted switching to NEO from the classic versions. The topsheets used to be significantly different, with the classic ones being noticeably softer and tackier. The classic sheets also domed more when boosted compared to the NEO!
However, I eventually switched to NEO because the quality control on the old sheets was horrendous and the topsheet would separate itself from the sponge for no reason at all, sometimes even before I started boosting them! And as my game improved, I began engaging the sponge and
Edited by schen - 01/11/2015 at 7:47pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Fixed that for you. I find that is true for hard-sponged, tacky rubbers in general, boosted or not, but some may disagree.
Edited by NextLevel - 01/11/2015 at 7:53pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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I should've just said looping the hell out of the ball haha.
But yes I think that is the consensus about hard tacky rubber behavior. Although the amount of power you would need to achieve the same speed with an unboosted chinese rubber is slightly unrealistic for most intents and purposes...
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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While on the topic of H3. Why doesnt DHS just make available the H3(National Blue Sponge) version the China Teams use for practice and competition to the public. Having a Top Tier rubber would definitely bring in more dollars to DHS. I for one would buy a piece to try if it was available. Another mystery of life unanswered or another conspiracy theory.
And see a lot of claims the national version many online sites sell are not genuine/fake. Why??? Someone in the know needs to spill the secrets....lol
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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Hi Steve You Hur 3 looks nice and powerful. Which hardness do you prefer and, for the Hu3 on this photo, which one is that? How long it takes to bring a Hur 3 to dead? I mean, when you can't use it to do counter loop. Regards |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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Here is my tuned Hurricane III
The problem is, it always looses tack and becomes bubbled after 2-3 weeks, no matter what I care for it. Do you have any solution, Mr. Steve Chen? Edited by chop4ever - 01/12/2015 at 2:48am |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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It would take me maybe 2 months of intensive training to completely ruin my hurricane, although I typically change them once a month (usually retuning at least once in between).
chop4ever, what are you boosting with?
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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What happened to you using skyline 2 neo? :)) Anyways, what is the hardness of h3neo that you use? and how often do you reboost your rubber? and what is the limit, no of times, of reboosting?
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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I've switched after nationals to give myself a little extra error room as H3 has a higher arc than TG2. With the constant switching of ball brands from tournament to tournament, I figured whatever gives me a better chance of getting the ball on the table is worth more than giving my opponent a tricky/difficult shot to return. I do however miss the super low arc and ease of countering with TG2... I bounce between the two on a monthly basis it seems
the h3neo I use is the standard 39deg and I reboost maybe once or twice over the life-span of the rubber. Usually a couple days before a tournament, otherwise every two weeks or so. I continue boosting with the same sheet until the rubber cannot expand anymore/fit my blade, then I switch to a new one.
Edited by schen - 01/12/2015 at 3:15am |
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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What's the typical lifespan of the rubber with boosting? :) and how many layers do you put for reboosting? Does reboosting gets you that phenomenon of the pips showing through the topsheet (like with the initial boosting) ? :)
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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I usually switch my rubbers before they reach the point where they die, usually after they no longer expand like I said or become too small to fit my blade. The amount of layers when reboosting depends on how long it's been since the last boost. If the tuning is completely gone, usually 3 layers is enough, if it just needs a little extra kick, then 1-2 layers is enough. And yes, the pips showing through the topsheet happens when the rubber is tensioned/boosted. Reboosting achieves that too.
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aroonkl
Silver Member Joined: 07/08/2011 Status: Offline Points: 748 |
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+1. Same to me. If I tune 3 layers or more, rubbers work great for 2 weeks after that Slip.
I use Falco long or Dianchi.
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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I often use Falco Long and Juic Ecolo Expander (for sponge and top-sheet tuning). I redo the boosting job every week. In that photo shows Neo Hurricane III hardness=D41 which I have boosted it 4 layers of Falco Long. I made it just a day before a tournament and it lasted about 2 weeks training before I can't do loop against loop and totally be ruined very quickly afterwards. It seems that Neo Hurricane is a kind of sucking money rubber. 50 bucks for a month is just throwing money to window. I wonder if anyone know how to keep its life-span last longer. |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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schen
Gold Member Joined: 03/26/2013 Location: San Diego, CA Status: Offline Points: 1244 |
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I would avoid putting anything on the topsheet, that is a quick way to kill the rubber even if you get a tiny bit of performance gain for a short while.
It could be that 41deg hurricane becomes difficult to use properly once it loses its tuning because it is so hard. And while Falco Long does seem to hold its effect longer than other boosters, I think 2 weeks is probably as long as it goes before a noticeable drop in performance and the elastic boosted feel begins to wear off. Do you have the same problem with a softer version (39/40)? You might also consider applying even thinner layers when you boost and waiting twice as long as you'd normally think to wait between layers. If you use layers that aren't thin enough or do not wait long enough between applications, you risk clogging the sponge's inner pores with wet booster that won't dry properly (even if the sponge surface appears dry) which will perform poorly/bubble quickly. edit: I also think sticking with commercial H3 NEO is still a good deal compared to using most other rubbers. As long as you can iron out the tuning aspect of it and assuming you go through a sheet a month, it will still come out cheaper than changing something like tenergy every 2-3 months. And it also helps that H3 is relatively cheap per sheet in case you damage the rubber.
Edited by schen - 01/12/2015 at 7:04am |
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dannyreventon
Super Member Joined: 05/22/2014 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 235 |
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How long do you wait between each application of layers?
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Main Setup:
Timo Boll Spirit FH: Neo H3 Prov 39deg BH: Xiom Musa Stiga Clipper Wood FH: Neo Skyline 3 BH: Stiga Neos Sound ST Avenger 5 FH: Neo H3 Bh: Xiom Musa |
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Argothman
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2013 Location: The stars Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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I assume you don't put a layer of glue before each boost layer schen, that would get pretty thick with 5 layers.
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qualizon
Silver Member Joined: 01/15/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 615 |
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schen: do you wait until the rubber to undome/uncurl before you glue the rubber on the blade? How long does the whole boosting process take in your case (5 layers of kailin)?
I have a bottle of kailin on order and I'm planning to do the same. I only have experience with dianchi and falco long.
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