Plastic ball, end of Tenergy for CNT?

I think the crux of this discussion is thus: if the CNT can boost H3 to be as fast as Tenergy, or if they modify their strategy such that the speed of Tenergy is not needed on the backhand, then they will move to H3 for more spin.

Baal wrote: What I remain unsure of is would it be better to have a faster rubber or a spinnier one with new balls? Probably depends on the player. I have no idea which of those might help me or maybe neithet.

I went to a spinnier rubber. But it didn't happen overnight and what I use now differs from what I used before on my flat/defensive strokes. But using both side by side over a month helped me appreciate what I use now as a reasonable alternative.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/23/2015 at 10:25am

haggisv wrote: Baal wrote: What I remain unsure of is would it be better to have a faster rubber or a spinnier one with new balls? Probably depends on the player. I have no idea which of those might help me or maybe neithet. That's a good question. If a different rubber could make the plastic ball shot spinnier, I would say that this would be preferable. For many players (including myself) the problem with the plastic balls is making the loop-kill type shots drop on the table. I'm not convinced that 'better' rubbers can make this happen though, as I feel the problem lies with the balls...they just don't curve down as much.

Grip S not like Tenergy either. I have hit with that also.

Baal wrote: Grip S not like Tenergy either. I have hit with that also.

Again, to you nothing is like anything else as long as it's not convenient, which makes it a mystery why you refer to tacky as one homogenous entity when not even H3 is identical.

Upon reflection, I guess it's not a mystery at all.


> Baal, he is just trying to say that Tenergy has a grippy topsheet that can be compared in some ways to Chinese rubber tackineas.

It's not as if grippy / tacky are somehow dichotomous properties but rather terms for end of a spectrum. Of course you already figured this out in the link to your own comment above but forget it when it's convenient.


Edited by AgentHEX - 03/23/2015 at 3:26pm

AgentHex,

Pick up a ball with a grippy rubber like Tenergy 05. When you do it, let me know so I can send you a check for being wrong.

There is a reason why many Europeans do not use Chinese type rubbers or sponges. Tacky rubbers hold the ball so much that hitting and smashing are negatively affected. Even serving feels different. That's the adjustment many people are unwilling to make and Baal is pointing that out.

No one switches like it is nothing. Everyone uses it for a period, adjusts to the changes, and finds a comfort level. Only players who are playing at a low enough level that details do not matter or who are so much better than their opponents that they can beat them with cellphones or hard bat don't care about the differences.

It took me a month of using Big Dipper while using T05 simultaneously to commit to it. Maybe that detail eludes you.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/23/2015 at 4:07pm

AgentHEX wrote: Sure, it's so different when it's convenient and so similar when convenient. Anyone who's used these modest tack rubber knows they don't pick up a ball either after initial use so it's unclear who this weaseling is supposed to fool.

So you are saying Big Dipper is a modest tack rubber? Or you have something else in mind?

Technique defines this sport but differences in equipment matter. What you call weaseling is teasing out the nuances of the differences. It takes playing at a certain level to appreciate them.

Edited by NextLevel - 03/23/2015 at 4:13pm

AgentHEX wrote: Many of the lower tack rubbers do not pick up the ball. I haven't tried specifically with Dipper, but apparently it's fairly close to T05 according to this NextLevel guy. Personally I think the Moon/Sun's in their lineup are closer but it's his words not mine.

I have written extensively on Big D elsewhere so I will clarify one more time and ask that you please stop misrepresenting me willfully.

1. I prefer my performance with Big Dipper to my performance with Tenergy 05 with the plastic ball.
2. For the price difference and since I play close to the table, I don't have any reason to test T05 at the moment.
3. Big Dipper especially in 38 deg has a slightly springier sponge than most tacky rubbers. That makes playing off the table compared to most Chinese rubbers easier.
4. Big Dipper is significantly tacky. It might not be initially apparent but it becomes very much so if you use the rubber.
5. Big Dipper is for people who like tacky rubbers but are put off by the effort to use the hard sponged ones. It is easier to use and block with though whether it suits a particular person will depend on what they are looking for. Euro rubber lovers may still find it too slow on hits and blocks and tacky rubber lovers may find it too fast, especially on serves and touch strokes.

I recommend it to T05 users not because it plays like T05 but because of the cost of admission and my experience. Some like it, some hate it.



Edited by NextLevel - 03/23/2015 at 4:40pm

I have quoted Samsonov on this already, so that last bit of trolling needs no further comment.

AgentHEX wrote: I've already replied to that comment by noting he plays no worse and if anything perhaps better with grip-s so please stop pretending that didn't happen.

The question was not whether he played worse or better, but whether a period of adjustment was required and whether there were distinct preferences based on technique, rubbers one learned with etc. We are still allowed to take his opinion on what he is more comfortable with seriously, even if you want to ignore it.

AgentHEX wrote: Given there was no drop in performance going to grip-s I'll let the results speak for itself. Of course no rubbers are identical just as the new ball isn't identical to old one and there are always preferences, just instances of similar enough that people who care to adapt to marginal differences have no trouble playing to same level. Again, I'll let you speak to the specific similarity between Tenergy/tacky: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70493&PID=862615&title=has-tenergy-been-surpassed#862615

And you interpreted that to mean that Tenergy 05 and Hurricane play similarly? Now I know why we have a problem. I speaking to an idiot.

AgentHEX wrote: I interpret that to mean you'll say anything to fit the situation. Two rubbers are similar when it suits your justification to change for new ball, and now apparently they're nothing alike.

AgentHEX wrote: > If they were alike, why would I need to change? According to you they ostensibly differ similarly to cell vs plastic, which is relatively minor in objective metrics.

Argothman wrote: I think the crux of this discussion is thus: if the CNT can boost H3 to be as fast as Tenergy, or if they modify their strategy such that the speed of Tenergy is not needed on the backhand, then they will move to H3 for more spin.

The pro/tuned H3 is still not going to be as fast as the pro/tuned Tenergy, not that the recent XX/ML change has much to do with plastic ball anyway.

A larger ball is going to have better aero as long as you can spin it hard enough. I did an analysis on this a while back and basically very physical players are going to have an advantage. Folks familiar with the 38->40 change can probably verify this.