Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - DHS Plastic Ball
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

DHS Plastic Ball

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678
Author
AndySmith View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/12/2008
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4378
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 6:33am
I'm surprised about the Stag balls too, but it could be that later batches aren't up to the same quality levels as the earlier, or the earlier batches are getting old and brittle in some way.

I caught up with an official from the Blackpool GP last week and asked about the final analysis on the Stiga 40+ they used.  It was the worst weekend event they have had with plastic so far.  They went through 2 boxes of 100 balls, ran out totally on the sunday and had to switch to some spare Joola 40+.  This was a bigger event than wturber's, but pretty awful numbers nonetheless. 
This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
AcudaDave View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/02/2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 1858
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AcudaDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 10:46am
Played my 1st match with the Xushaofa ball last night against a 1900 left-handed chopper/looper. Now I see why several people have said they prefer these balls over most of the seamed balls as it played pretty well. I normally win 3-0 against him, but struggled with it at first and ended up winning in 5. First thing I noticed right from the start was my bh loop wasn't as much of a weapon. I can usually loop winners off of my bh, but he was able to get back easily and chop all of them back as the spin was much less than celluloid. The other thing is that if you back up too far you will struggle as the balls flight path will drop off very quickly. Overall the ball really wasn't that bad, but if the manufacturers can keep making improvements then these balls probably will be ok. I would also point out however that he had a new ball that he practiced with that cracked pretty quickly.
Joola Zhou Qihao 90 blade
Joola Dynaryz Inferno max - BH
Nittaku Moristo SP 2.0 - FH
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 11:02am
I can state with a very large statistical sample as a fact -- not speculation -- that there is simply no durability problem with XSF ITTF approved balls made in March or April of 2014.  I have had so many of these balls that I can say that with 100% confidence.  They do occasionally shatter when struck with edges, but on average they last longer than any other ball, celluloid included. 

However, I cannot guarantee that XSF-made seamless balls made more recently have the same quality.  I simply haven't had a chance to try any that I know of.  Nexy balls were fine, and may have been newer, but I don't know for sure because in violation of ITTF rules, they did not put a date of manufacture stamp on their box. 

And as they say, past performance does not guarantee future performance.
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:



However, I cannot guarantee that XSF-made seamless balls made more recently have the same quality.  I simply haven't had a chance to try any that I know of.  Nexy balls were fine, and may have been newer, but I don't know for sure because in violation of ITTF rules, they did not put a date of manufacture stamp on their box. 

And as they say, past performance does not guarantee future performance.

Yes.  I also was unable to find a date of manufacture on the box.  And while I can't say it with the certainty that you state, seeing only one ball break in over 200 played in two days seems pretty good to me.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
Mastermind View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 09/16/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 948
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 5:54pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

there is simply no durability problem with XSF ITTF approved balls made in March or April of 2014. [...] They do occasionally shatter when struck with edges, but on average they last longer than any other ball, celluloid included.


I read a report on this site where a user complained about XSF durability calling them "fragile" e.g. . The user "sssandy" then replied that it might me true for 1* balls. Well, then it must be true for 3*** as well, since 3*** balls are just rounder than 1*, it is definitely not a separate production line. Anyway, even if the balls just "shatter when struck with edges", this sounds like a serious durability problem. If you hit an edge once a game, you will need a new ball once a game. A very expensive fun to me.


Edited by Mastermind - 05/05/2015 at 8:02pm
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:


I read a report on this site where a user complained about XSF durability calling them "fragile" e.g. . The user "sssandy" then replied that it might me true for 1* balls. Well, then it must be true for 3*** as well, since 3*** balls are just rounder than 1*, it is definitely not a separate production line. Anyway, even if the balls just "shatter when struck with edges", this sounds like a serious durability problem. If you hit an edge once a game, you will need a new ball once a game. A very expensive fun to me.

But you don't hit an edge hard enough or often enough to need a new ball once a game.  As I reported, after 215 matches, we had two balls break.  One was stepped on.  The other failed during play. We lost four times as many balls due to non-return from matches as we did from breakage.

The reality is nowhere close to one failure per game.  The reality is more like playing for two or more weeks and ten or more hours with one ball and then getting a random failure out of the blue.  
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 8:17pm
Mastermind read a report on this site saying they were fragile, but the other ten saying they aren't probably passed him by.  Confirmation bias at work.

Jay, having 1 ball break in over 200 played is a pretty good data set too.  I actually haven't had that many balls, but I have been using them over a longer time.

Anyway, durability is not a problem with seamless balls I have tried.  It just isn't -- which isn't to say they don't ever break because they do.
 
Back to Top
Mastermind View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 09/16/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 948
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2015 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

As I reported, after 215 matches, we had two balls break.


Well, there are some conflicting reports, this is a fact.

By the way, "two balls gone after 215 matches" statement does not make any sense to me, because it does not say anything about durability. E.g. whether those matches were played with  the same one ball (as long as it lived) or with many balls randomly taken out of a large box with 144 balls are 2 very different things.
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2015 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

As I reported, after 215 matches, we had two balls break.


Well, there are some conflicting reports, this is a fact.

Sure.  But the vast majority of reports and the ones with the highest sample rates are the ones that show high durability. 

Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:


By the way, "two balls gone after 215 matches" statement does not make any sense to me, because it does not say anything about durability. E.g. whether those matches were played with  the same one ball (as long as it lived) or with many balls randomly taken out of a large box with 144 balls are 2 very different things.

I described in my original post the approximate number of balls put into use as being two dozen.  In fact, it was twenty new balls.  Of those twenty, we lost one to breakage in during, one to getting stepped on, and six that simply were not returned - presumed under the bleachers or in someone's pocket or gear bag.

We started with 3 dozen balls because that has been what we've needed historically and that includes re-using balls used in the previous tournament in the opening round robin events.  We had no re-use balls available for this event since it was our first event to use 40+ balls yet we still have 16 unused balls left over.

Now this event is one of our smaller events with ony 57 players as opposed to 80 in our larger ones.  But even if we played 50% more matches in our larger event, at the rate experienced in this event, and considerding that we will have re-use balls available, we should need two dozen balls or less for our upcoming events - which is clearly less than what we needed with the celluloid balls.

BTW, while I never bothered to count breakage in the past, it was quite common to have players toss in a broken ball to exchange for an unbroken ball.  The majority of our ball loss seemed to be from breakage and not from loss to the bleachers or people's pockets.  Things appear to have reversed significantly and breakage is almost non-existent.



Edited by wturber - 05/06/2015 at 6:08pm
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 14335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2015 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:

As I reported, after 215 matches, we had two balls break.


Well, there are some conflicting reports, this is a fact.

By the way, "two balls gone after 215 matches" statement does not make any sense to me, because it does not say anything about durability. E.g. whether those matches were played with  the same one ball (as long as it lived) or with many balls randomly taken out of a large box with 144 balls are 2 very different things.


Yes, but the ratio of reports is about 10:1 for people saying seamless balls are durable vs. about 1 for people who have had maybe one box of the balls and discovered they broke one when it hit an edge.  You have to consider the quality of the reports, which is primarily based on time and number of balls experienced.  Mastermind, we know you have an agenda, you will criticize all plastic balls, and you have no credibility on this issue because of your obvious confirmation bias, and other things you have written in the past.

The only question in my mind is whether seamless balls will maintain this quality into the future.  And I frankly have no information about that.  I am not too happy about their price increases, and it bothers me some that I have not seen any made (to my knowledge) more recently than April of 2014.
Back to Top
Hans Regenkurt View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 08/12/2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 826
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Regenkurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2015 at 3:00pm
I am sure that the reason behind that is the players' and the AC's proposals to modify the ball's characteristics. We will find out soon enough.
Back to Top
Mastermind View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member


Joined: 09/16/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 948
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mastermind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2015 at 7:09pm
Back to the "shatter when struck with edges" problem, I had a session with a guy recently who managed 4 powerful edge strokes within the first 10 minutes, after that I stopped counting. With plastic balls it would have meant transferring 6 euros into the deep pockets of some people just for 10 minutes fun. Unfortunately for them and luckily for us we used celluloid balls, none of them shattered.




Edited by Mastermind - 05/06/2015 at 7:23pm
Back to Top
wturber View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/28/2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3899
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2015 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Mastermind Mastermind wrote:

Back to the "shatter when struck with edges" problem, I had a session with a guy recently who managed 4 powerful edge strokes within the first 10 minutes, after that I stopped counting. With plastic balls it would have meant transferring 6 euros into the wide pockets of some people just for 10 minutes fun. Unfortunately for them and luckily for us we used celluloid balls, none of them shattered.


The balls do not always shatter when struck by an edge.  They are merely more likely to do so then. Do you really think that we played 215 matches this weekend with only one edge ball?

I suppose that if you are a powerful looper who misses and hits the edge a LOT, who cuts his rubber slightly smaller than the blade rather than slightly larger and who doesn't use edge tape that you might experience marginally less overall ball durability with these seamless balls than with celluloid.  But you'd be the exception.  Most people will find the balls more durable than celluloid, not less.
Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com
Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2024 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.