Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Insure your packages when possible
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Forum Home Forum Home > Buy and Sell > For sale

Insure your packages when possible

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Insure your packages when possible
    Posted: 03/29/2015 at 9:04pm
This is not a rule, but it is a strong suggestion when it is feasible.  It doesn't cost much to insure your packages, especially when shipping within or from the US.  If you decide to ship something to someone and fail to insure it, it seems to me that you are the one assuming the risk.  If you ship an item to someone and fail to insure it, it is not fair to expect the intended recipient to split the costs if the package is lost.  Just as we strongly suggest not using Paypal as a gift (which means the seller might want to add a few percent to the price to account for that), we strongly recommend sellers and traders insure packages (which you can also add on to the price). 
Back to Top
42andbackpains View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/05/2014
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2015 at 10:22pm
I second this opinion. I myself a ebay powerseller and sell about 500 to 1000 items per month. I do lose about 5 to 10 items per month and just call it a loss. But for our MYTT members losing your blades and rackets in the mail and not having it insured. Then you are running the risk of losing the item and please dont blame the buyer. Unless the buyers address has some issues. The USPS Postal service is not perfect and for the most part does the job adequately. Just adding my 2 cents.

Tip: Try googling the buyers address to confirm if it shows up on Google Maps and the USPS postal system.

2nd Tip: I lose many packages shipping to Puerto Rico, this is why many Ebay sellers dont ship there. USPS postal system is very messy and chaotic in P.R.
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Custom Stiga Oversize Reproduction 6.1mm 90grams
FH Tibhar MX-P Black
BH Butterfly T05 Red
USATT rating keeps going down
Back to Top
tt599 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/27/2012
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt599 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2015 at 11:07pm
There is no issue to insure package when shipping within US. For international packages it might be an issue - when buyer is asking to mark package as gift with the very low value. In this case you can't buy insurance for amount that is greater than declared value...
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/29/2015 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by tt599 tt599 wrote:

There is no issue to insure package when shipping within US. For international packages it might be an issue - when buyer is asking to mark package as gift with the very low value. In this case you can't buy insurance for amount that is greater than declared value...


Good point tt599.  In that case, the buyer would have to assume part of the risk since he was the one specifically requesting declaration of low value.
Back to Top
deti016 View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 11/04/2011
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deti016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 4:48am
Hello and good morning from Germany,

it is always bad, when a package got lost... here in Germany it is very easy to add a high value, but declare on custom declaration low value...

But... when I send a package abroad, I always make insurance. The seller pay it (mostly with paypal) and when a package get lost, You can get back money from postal service and refund the buyer... if there is no insurance wanted from buyer and it get lost, it is the risk of buyer - not from seller... but in case of payment via PayPal - and the seller have no insurance or tracking... Paypal fetch money from the seller - and he has nothing...

It is not the insurance - it is the tracking of a package - I make it always, when value higher then 50 USD.

Very kind regards
deti016
Back to Top
helmsman View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/13/2004
Location: LA
Status: Offline
Points: 172
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helmsman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 11:01am
I've heard stories that on international shipping USPS doesn't admit any responsibility after package leaves US and thus pays nothing.
Nittaku Ludeack
FH: Donic Acuda S1 turbo max
BH: Donic Acuda S1 max
Back to Top
42andbackpains View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/05/2014
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by helmsman helmsman wrote:

I've heard stories that on international shipping USPS doesn't admit any responsibility after package leaves US and thus pays nothing.

This is true for most international packages sent by USPS except for Priority Mail Express....

1. USPS first class mail international (Tracking does not update after it leaves the U.S.) This is what most MYTT member use for shipping because it is the most economical. Does mostly update when it goes to U.K., Canada and Australia....sometimes it does not update due to very rural areas.

2. USPS Priority Mail (Tracking does not update after it leaves the U.S.) Too Expensive and same rules apply for the above countries.

3. USPS Priority Mail Express (Tracking does work because this is the most expensive service that they offer. This price is equal to using DHL, UPS and FEDEX. I would rather use Fedex or UPS)

USPS Parcel Post International has been discontinued for over 2 years. This was the most economical way of shipping international.

This is my experience dealing with USPS postal service for the past 15 years....and take it as a opinion and YMMV.



Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Custom Stiga Oversize Reproduction 6.1mm 90grams
FH Tibhar MX-P Black
BH Butterfly T05 Red
USATT rating keeps going down
Back to Top
NoRema View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/04/2015
Location: On The Table
Status: Offline
Points: 574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoRema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 12:27pm
This is why i only ship to others in the US ^^


Click the picture for feedback ^
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 1:58pm
This issue came up because I received a message asking for my opinion (although I would prefer to not be the referee of transactions here if I can help it).  For now we will consider this a hypothetical situation because I have no way of verifying facts that were presented to me, but for now let's assume for sake of discussion that what I present below is the truth.

Two members arrange a trade in good faith, one in Canada, one in US.  Both ship their items and have receipts from their post offices showing that they acted in good faith.  The guy in US receives his item.  The guy in Canada does not (or at least hasn't yet) but he has seen the postal information so knows the item was actually shipped.  However, the guy in US did not insure the item when he shipped it.  How to resolve this?  The guy in US wants to split the cost of the lost item with the guy in Canada.  The guy in Canada wonders why he should be responsible for this.  His part of the deal went through. 

Again, I am not the referee, or at least I don't want to be.  But to me, at least, it seems as if the guy in the US should have insured the package and so he should assume the risk if he didn't.  I don't see how it is fair that the guy in Canada should be out money for this.

In any case, this is what made me suggest that you should all insure the packages you send whenever it is feasible.

By the way, I once sold a blade to a guy in the Netherlands.  I didn't insure it.  When the blade didn't arrive, I refunded his money.
Back to Top
tiehwen View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 11/22/2006
Location: Bukan Bumiputra
Status: Offline
Points: 6298
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tiehwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 3:16pm
if we Canadian sellers ship any package out to any where, there should already be a "built-in" insurance to cover up to 100 Cdn. There is however no track & trace if we want to ship by "Small Package to US by Air or Small package International by Air".
In this particular case, the Canadian side shouldn't have to absorb any cost for the loss from US to Canada esp. there was in fact no coverage of insurance on the package to begin with.
No brainer from me.
Back to Top
42andbackpains View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 10/05/2014
Location: NYC
Status: Offline
Points: 578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

This issue came up because I received a message asking for my opinion (although I would prefer to not be the referee of transactions here if I can help it).  For now we will consider this a hypothetical situation because I have no way of verifying facts that were presented to me, but for now let's assume for sake of discussion that what I present below is the truth.

Two members arrange a trade in good faith, one in Canada, one in US.  Both ship their items and have receipts from their post offices showing that they acted in good faith.  The guy in US receives his item.  The guy in Canada does not (or at least hasn't yet) but he has seen the postal information so knows the item was actually shipped.  However, the guy in US did not insure the item when he shipped it.  How to resolve this?  The guy in US wants to split the cost of the lost item with the guy in Canada.  The guy in Canada wonders why he should be responsible for this.  His part of the deal went through. 

Again, I am not the referee, or at least I don't want to be.  But to me, at least, it seems as if the guy in the US should have insured the package and so he should assume the risk if he didn't.  I don't see how it is fair that the guy in Canada should be out money for this.

In any case, this is what made me suggest that you should all insure the packages you send whenever it is feasible.

By the way, I once sold a blade to a guy in the Netherlands.  I didn't insure it.  When the blade didn't arrive, I refunded his money.

Baal you are stuck in between a rock and a hard place....I for one would not get involved if i had a choice.


1. USPS First Class international does not allow the shipper to buy insurance. This was the rule from 2 years ago and i have not used this service since i have a FEDEX international account. Priority Mail is too expensive and mostly likely the trade would not have happened if you figure in the cost of higher shipping with insurance.

2. This is a transaction and did both parties agree to specific terms or did they simply agreed to use the cheapest shipping available. There are too many unknowns.

Ebay is very clear on this. The seller is responsible no matter what until the item reaches the buyers destination. Once the tracking shows the item is delivered then the seller is no longer held responsible for the shipping. It is up to the shipping party if they want to insure the item. Plain and simple.

Problem here is that there is no specified shipping rules for buying, selling and trading.



Edited by 42andbackpains - 03/30/2015 at 4:46pm
Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Custom Stiga Oversize Reproduction 6.1mm 90grams
FH Tibhar MX-P Black
BH Butterfly T05 Red
USATT rating keeps going down
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 8:02pm
I think this is the limit of my involvement in this transaction and I think the guys will work it out, but I wanted to mention this in a thread so that people could avoid this in the future, at least some of the time.
Back to Top
NoRema View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/04/2015
Location: On The Table
Status: Offline
Points: 574
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoRema Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 9:42pm
In businesses, if a product is lost in the mail before a recipient recieves it, then the business is liable for the product, not the consumer. Therefore, if a product gets lost in the mail the seller should be liable in this situation too, again, not the consumer.


Click the picture for feedback ^
Back to Top
Lestat View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/16/2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 406
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lestat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2015 at 9:02pm
Another hypothetical situation: say I want to buy a blade, I proceed to send the guy his money but somehow the money gets lost in transit. Am I right to think I'm still entitled to get the blade? I did send him the money after all, I can prove it with a bank statement.




Edited by Lestat - 07/17/2015 at 9:03pm
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2015 at 9:11pm
You actually sent money?  Actual cash?  Legal tender?  Pieces of paper of value that can be used for transactions with no questions asked?  Presumably with a picture of the Queen?  By the mail?  In the year 2015 of the common era?  Are you nuts?

The answer clearly is that anyone who makes a mistake that obvious and elementary is largely to blame for the failure of the transaction and is not entitled to the blade.
Back to Top
Lestat View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 01/16/2012
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 406
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lestat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/17/2015 at 9:53pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

You actually sent money?  Actual cash?  Legal tender?  Pieces of paper of value that can be used for transactions with no questions asked?  Presumably with a picture of the Queen?  By the mail?  In the year 2015 of the common era?  Are you nuts?

The answer clearly is that anyone who makes a mistake that obvious and elementary is largely to blame for the failure of the transaction and is not entitled to the blade.

No. I said I can prove it with a bank statement, so I'm in the clear right? 

Let me stop you before you undermine your own argument. It doesn't make one iota of difference what method of transfer I use or what excuses I give, no seller in their right mind would accept to send anything without the money being well cleared in their account, or their hand for that matter.

Now, go back to my hypothetical situation and substitute the word money with blade, and vice versa. It sounds pretty nuts to send the blade without getting paid, but perfectly acceptable for the buyer to pay and end up with nothing because of a package lost in transit. My post was tongue in cheek to illustrate a point, there are many fellow forumers who believe their responsibility ends with dropping the package at the post office. 




Edited by Lestat - 07/17/2015 at 11:54pm
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/04/2015 at 4:35pm
I missed the word "hypothetical" in your last post.  I thought you had actually sent cash through the mail or something.

There are several different ways that one could send money and prove that it had been received. Usually transactions here are through Paypal because it is set up precisely for this kind of thing and is easy to use, and documents the transaction.  I suppose you could use something else like Western Union or even send a check by the post, or I suppose other ways that don't immediately come to my mind.  If you can prove that the other party cashed the check, or that the money was transferred into their account then you are entitled to the blade and would be able to make a case if the blade is not received.  Now what if the buyer is lying and the blade was actually delivered even though buyer says it wasn't?  The blade seller should use a form of tracking that allows them to in turn prove that the blade was delivered, even if this costs more.  They should also insure the blade in case the shipper messes up.

These are good practices that each party to the transaction should do if they want to be protected.  They add to the price of the transaction.  But if you aren't willing to pay those costs, you can't complain if things go wrong.

People need to be careful.  I'm not trying to be "right" or "wrong" and I'm not trying to undermine anyone's argument, not even my own.  I am saying that I get a lot of PMs in which people tell me their problems after having not followed my advice about this.
Back to Top
Baal View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator


Joined: 01/21/2010
Location: unknown
Status: Offline
Points: 11223
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2015 at 7:03pm
Something new about dealing with USPS, sent to me by fatt.  I  think it is useful information.

"If 1st class + tracking (btw tracking is systematic now) is not possible because the package is too heavy (like above 13oz but maybe that figure changed too) then make sure you ask the estimated delivery date and it it's a week ask the additional money to be spent to send it via 2-day priority mail; it will be another half buck that maybe the seller will be happy to spend."
Back to Top
tt4u View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/17/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/24/2015 at 5:00pm
Don't know if this is the right place to post this but I find it useful to give proof of sending when I ship from US  to oversea and there is no tracking. The customs declaration number can be enter into the tracking field and you would get  something like "USPS Tracking is unavailable for this product for So and so country". This should give you proof of sending besides a pic of the receipt.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.234 seconds.
Mark all posts as read :: Delete cookies set by this forum

Cookies and JavaScript must be enabled on your web browser in order to use this forum


Copyright © 2003-2013 MyTableTennis.NET - All Rights Reserved. Disclaimer