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great German league match - Wang Xi v Qiu Dang

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    Posted: 03/30/2015 at 3:06pm
Just stumbled on  this little gem. Such a shame Wang Xi is not allowed to play in international events.




ttlondon2012 - thanks a lot!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Just stumbled on  this little gem. Such a shame Wang Xi is not allowed to play in international events.
===============

He just played the 2015 ITTF German Open (a super series).


Edited by skip3119 - 03/30/2015 at 3:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Just stumbled on  this little gem. Such a shame Wang Xi is not allowed to play in international events.
===============

He just played the 2015 ITTF German Open (a super series).

I didn't know that - thanks for pointing it out. This means there are some videos of Wang Xi to be watched :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 5:01pm
This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 

Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 

Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.



Yes, Qui Dang's style is quite impressive. I thought he had Wang Xi's number after the first 2 games, but then Wang Xi worked some magic, and won 3:2, and believe you me it wasn't boring for anyone, including the audience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The soul of rock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 6:22pm
For no real reason, I think Qui Dang looks like a penhold version of Kenta Matsudaira
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/30/2015 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Originally posted by skip3119 skip3119 wrote:

He just played the 2015 ITTF German Open (a super series).
I didn't know that - thanks for pointing it out. This means there are some videos of Wang Xi to be watched :-)
========================================
In preliminary Rounds (qualification):
Wang Xi beat Mutti Leonard.  (table 9).
He then beat Kou Lei. (table 13).
Finally he lost to Matsudaira Kenji. (table 7).
*** He didn't get into the Main Draw.
===========================

Thus no video.  Only table 1 and 2 have video.


Edited by skip3119 - 03/30/2015 at 6:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sandiway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2015 at 2:56am
Good find! 

Qiu Dang has really nice form. Clearly, an excellent player. IMO, his forehand loop is way better than Wong Chun Ting's. 

His RPB looks like a first loop only kind, though it's hard to tell because he's playing a chopper. Wong Chun Ting has a RPB counterloop.

He also likes to forehand block after his forehand loop is counter looped back to the forehand. Strange quirk. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TurboZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2015 at 4:05am
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 

Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.




Qiu was using Cpen from Butterfly. His grip is unorthodox but effective.
 
Just realised he switched to Butterfly Jpen with RPB. Can't imagine he can handle such a thick blade with RPB this smoothly. Hope he can make it big.


Edited by TurboZ - 04/01/2015 at 9:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2015 at 10:54am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 

Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.



Yes, Qui Dang's style is quite impressive. I thought he had Wang Xi's number after the first 2 games, but then Wang Xi worked some magic, and won 3:2, and believe you me it wasn't boring for anyone, including the audience.
You have to separate the contribution of the players. If Zhang Jike and I go to a random club in California, everybody will come to see US. But was it really US, or just ZJK, and I just happened to be there.
Everything nice to watch in this match was created by QD. He changed placement, power, great counters, he was the one creating the attractive stuff. WX did NOTHING, but chop everything in the middle of the table, and occasionally attack a pop-up. QD loop slow spiny to BH followed that hard drive to FH. That's variation. But WX retrieved both balls in the middle of the table, not too low either, at least a foot and a half high, but he can hide behind the backspin. So, NO, I refuse to grant him the same contribution that QD receives.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/31/2015 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 
Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.


I watched the first 1.5 games. I was going to disagree with you when I realised that I had not noticed that QD's grip was so unorthodox. I actual thought that he was a normal handshake player.
I watched again and the match now looks different to me. Funny that. It shows how one can see things another way once someone has pointed you in a certain direction.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2015 at 3:56am
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 

Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.



Yes, Qui Dang's style is quite impressive. I thought he had Wang Xi's number after the first 2 games, but then Wang Xi worked some magic, and won 3:2, and believe you me it wasn't boring for anyone, including the audience.
You have to separate the contribution of the players. If Zhang Jike and I go to a random club in California, everybody will come to see US. But was it really US, or just ZJK, and I just happened to be there.
Everything nice to watch in this match was created by QD. He changed placement, power, great counters, he was the one creating the attractive stuff. WX did NOTHING, but chop everything in the middle of the table, and occasionally attack a pop-up. QD loop slow spiny to BH followed that hard drive to FH. That's variation. But WX retrieved both balls in the middle of the table, not too low either, at least a foot and a half high, but he can hide behind the backspin. So, NO, I refuse to grant him the same contribution that QD receives.

I guess we'll just have to disagree. If what you say were true, QD would have won the match. But he lost, and did not look in control at all in the latter half of the match. IMHO, the real variation was created by WX who came up with a more effective strategy, and won the match. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vivan4tt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2015 at 7:41am
You can check Dang Qui racket here : http://mytischtennis.de/public/fotos/355/ndm-2015-die-schlaeger-der-deutschen-stars
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2015 at 8:09am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

This Qui Dang is really good. Interesting style, japanese penhold used like chinese penhold. 

Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.



Yes, Qui Dang's style is quite impressive. I thought he had Wang Xi's number after the first 2 games, but then Wang Xi worked some magic, and won 3:2, and believe you me it wasn't boring for anyone, including the audience.
You have to separate the contribution of the players. If Zhang Jike and I go to a random club in California, everybody will come to see US. But was it really US, or just ZJK, and I just happened to be there.
Everything nice to watch in this match was created by QD. He changed placement, power, great counters, he was the one creating the attractive stuff. WX did NOTHING, but chop everything in the middle of the table, and occasionally attack a pop-up. QD loop slow spiny to BH followed that hard drive to FH. That's variation. But WX retrieved both balls in the middle of the table, not too low either, at least a foot and a half high, but he can hide behind the backspin. So, NO, I refuse to grant him the same contribution that QD receives.

I guess we'll just have to disagree. If what you say were true, QD would have won the match. But he lost, and did not look in control at all in the latter half of the match. IMHO, the real variation was created by WX who came up with a more effective strategy, and won the match. 


+1000 !!!

Of course, Wang Xi adapted his game and shew his tactic superiority. He just needed to learn Qiu'style to annihilate it.
Qiu Dang is a good player but...who is he in the Bundesliga ?
Wang Xi is a real fighter, never gives up and was several years the best players in the Bundesliga.
If he had been allowed to compete sooner for Germany, I'm sure he would have been in the top ranking, like JSH.
I have the biggest respect for defenders and as Waldner said : "this way of playing demands much more training and fitness than any other playing style".
Thanks to JSH, Wang Xi, Panagiotis, Ruwen, Wang yang, Weixing.......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2015 at 10:29am
you cam make words out of nothing but that doesn't make them true.

In the first two games Wang Xi chopped  everything in the middle of the table, medium high.

Then he 'adopted' and started chopping   everything in the middle of the table, medium high.

It is hard to carry on with the same power for the offensive player. Its the same story always, attacker starts strong, and little by little he gets tired, starts missing, starts getting demoralized. That's why chopping is disgusting, and should be crushed mercilessly, and exposed for the cowardly, back-stabbing tactic that it is. 

Also, lets get one thing straight: chopping IS NOT PHYSICALLY MORE DEMANDING THAN LOOPING THE CHOP! Any engineer or physician can tell you, and if you ever looped a nasty chop, you know how much body power it takes to lift those! Chopping the loop, however, is a downward stroke, with much less power. The difference is that chopper needs the legs to get there, but once he does, stroke is easy. In practice, very few in the world can continuously loop to different corners, so the legs disadvantage is not visible on low level, but the looper's disadvantage is visible on every loop. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2015 at 10:31am
"chopping is not physically more demanding than looping the chop" ... this is actually funny. 

P.S.: It almost sounds like assiduous is back ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/01/2015 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Victor_the_cleaner Victor_the_cleaner wrote:

you cam make words out of nothing but that doesn't make them true.

In the first two games Wang Xi chopped  everything in the middle of the table, medium high.

Then he 'adopted' and started chopping   everything in the middle of the table, medium high.

It is hard to carry on with the same power for the offensive player. Its the same story always, attacker starts strong, and little by little he gets tired, starts missing, starts getting demoralized. That's why chopping is disgusting, and should be crushed mercilessly, and exposed for the cowardly, back-stabbing tactic that it is. 

Also, lets get one thing straight: chopping IS NOT PHYSICALLY MORE DEMANDING THAN LOOPING THE CHOP! Any engineer or physician can tell you, and if you ever looped a nasty chop, you know how much body power it takes to lift those! Chopping the loop, however, is a downward stroke, with much less power. The difference is that chopper needs the legs to get there, but once he does, stroke is easy. In practice, very few in the world can continuously loop to different corners, so the legs disadvantage is not visible on low level, but the looper's disadvantage is visible on every loop. 



I never wrote that chopping is demanding more than looping...I wrote "defending" is demanding more than a classic game also if you have several matches to play the same day...defending is not really limited at only chopping. It demands good anticipation, quick feet, lots of moves from back to front and front to back. Of course, a good defender at this level is at least a top forehand looper. he is also able to twiddle during some points. These kinds of players have also to be able to vary the speed, the height, the spin of their balls but most of all, they should be able to master the spins of the attacker since they receive it at 100% due to the fact that they don't block.
If it was so easy....why are there so few defenders at the top ?
Why Wang Xi has had so many victories and was 3 times best players in the best european championship ?
Why JSY is admired by 99,99% of the players except you ?
Why 99,99% of the spectators are waiting for matches with defenders VS attackers ?

A last thing: you can't deny that when a defender is in a bad day, that is worst for him and without mercy...worst than  every other style of play..
that is the evidence this style is more difficult to master than any other.


Edited by kakapo - 04/01/2015 at 11:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2015 at 12:00am
were their back hand using long pips? 
the balls curved and some how zig-zaged right? It's really hard to play with weird ball like these ! :(

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2015 at 1:56am
Wow, kakapo made Wang Xi a super hero or something. He has to have good anticipation and quick feet. Who doesn't? and the other stuff mastering spins or what was it. Just a pathetic effort to pump some air into the nothing Wang Xi. Wang Xi is nothing. Completely mediocre. Mkay? He routinely loses to people you've never hear. To say that he could have made it in the world elite takes a lot of wishful thinking.

The audience is completely incompetent. They always get riled up when one player is defending from the end of the court and lobbing, when in fact he is in completely lost position. They don't know whats going on.

The very essence of chopping is cowardliness. You avoid direct contact and run to the back instead and then hide behind backspin, that you don't even make yourself but use long pips to send his own spin back. And your MAIN plan for getting points is ... hoping for opponent errors. You never plan to win a point through your own actions. How is that not cowardly and back stabbing? Of course not many people play that style. It has to fit your personality. What do you think of my personality? How do you see me as a cowardly chopper? Most people don't like that, even if you told them they can bet other people. How can you compare chopping and your opponent looping in the net with you yourself hooking a loop with all you got?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2015 at 2:52am
Lots of nuts play table tennis.

*Edit:  "In the US."




Edited by roundrobin - 04/03/2015 at 2:53am
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Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Lots of nuts play table tennis.
*Edit:  "In the US."
At the club the other day - I was thinking the same thing....Apparently in Canada as well!

For the record Wang Xi is a fantastic player!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2015 at 10:40am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Lots of nuts play table tennis.

*Edit:  "In the US."



well... I will grant you that one.. Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote magnuseffect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2015 at 3:23pm
Quote Wang Xi is boring to death, no distinction from the other 100 choppers.


Seeing him Live at Modum Open a few years ago was the highlight of the tournament. IMO: Whenever table tennis looks boring its usually the fault of the camera angle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/03/2015 at 5:49pm
Btw, wang xi got his initial ittf world ranking after the german open: 102. It will be interesting to see where he ends up in a years time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor_the_cleaner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2015 at 1:17am
ITTF.com says he is 31. I'm afraid  that ship has sailed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/04/2015 at 5:53am
Well, no one is claiming Wang Xi will be the next world champion. 

But he's beaten a lot of very decent players over the course of the last year (Chuang Chih-Yuan, Baum, Apolonia, Steiger, Achanta, Crisan, Skachkov, Pitchford), and, IMHO, is capable of making top 50.
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