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Different Glues: Pro's and Cons |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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Posted: 12/21/2020 at 8:35am |
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WOW !!
You will be a happy guy by adding a whit of starch powder to the bottle. You get a nice smooth white paste easy to spread over., much like STIGA Super Condensed glue. Starch powder works wonders, indeed. |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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Been using Paddle Palace EZ PRO Glue, apply one coat and let it set for about 1/2 hr works great.
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Kolev
Gold Member Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
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The only glue I won't buy again is the DHS15. Horrible, although it could be the batch. Will never know
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
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Jouncsen
Beginner Joined: 06/10/2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 7 |
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Should I go with FCII, DHS No.15 or REvolution 3?
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Thanks lineup32, I'll try it on my next set of rubbers.
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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like Double Sided Scotch tape. What I noticed immediately was how flat the rubber felt with Nori with no issues like bubbles or areas of the rubber coming loose and needing re-glue.
My guess is soft wet glue does impacts the sponge and how it plays depending on the glue. Also given the cost basis of most new rubbers keeping the sponge in pristine condition with a glue sheet seems to be a better choice unless one uses various additives anyway.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Are glue sheets in general a form of a big double sided scotch tape or is it like a "peelable" glue layer that is somewhat squishy (kinda like the glue layer on old bw2s)? Do you notice a difference in play between traditional WBG and glue sheets? Also many recommend Glue sheets for OX rubbers. I use MXP both sides and planning on sticking with it. I'm not concerned too much in ripping off sponge but more with splinting the blade when removing old rubbers.
Edited by DreiZ - 10/21/2015 at 10:30pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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I tried glue sheet's since Charlie Smith at BBC was using them but he doesn't use any of the conventional glue sheets associated with TT mostly due to cost issues. I use Nori and like the flat lay of the rubber, messing with glue's spreading it, waiting for it to dry and getting a bubble now and then. It took me a few sheets to get the feeling for how to use the Nori and in what order but once you understand the process it goes quickly. I use hair spray before applying the Nori since I don't seal my blades. I am careful when I do take rubber off the blade as well as the glue sheet that is still on the blade. Keeping the sheets in a plastic container away from heat is probably a good idea.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Can anyone that tried Glue Sheets list pros and cons of them? Please mention the brand you tried. I'm interested in trying them for my next change of rubbers. Thanks!
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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A little history. The earliest speed glues had halogenated solvents. ITTF banned those earlier because thet are dangerous. Later speed glues, not WBG, were pretty safe. ITTF sad it was a safety issue when they banned those also, but there was no data to support that. Same excuse they used for boosters.
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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I wonder, would it make sense to dilute it with 2-Me-THF...
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
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+1 When I first mentioned Free Chack II on this thread, I forgot to say that one nice feature they offer is you can buy it in really small tubes (less than $5 per tube) that are just enough to glue one or two rackets, depending how thin you apply the glue. Yes it comes out conveniently in small droplets, and yes, I too use small foam paint brushes to spread it. Amazing, I thought I was the only one spending $0.40 per brush to avoid the clumsy clamps and sponges.
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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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TT11 from ruskis. Says its the best one that they tried from TT11 selection of glue sheets. http://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng/tibhar-self-adhesive-film-duo Edited by DreiZ - 10/20/2015 at 9:08pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Good in what way? Do you remember where you saw the review? |
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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So this is what I did last night. Removed the rubber from the blade, came off easily and was surprised to see no glue residue on the blade at all. There was glue on the sponge but it was not THAT sticky, strange. Removed the glue from the top half of the rubber first (as I was lazy and didn't want to remove it all) from where the rubber had started to come off the blade. Some small chunks of the sponge did come off with the glue and left small holes in the sponge. Re-applied one coat of Finzezip on the blade and two coats on the rubber, after drying for 5-10 mins attached the rubber back on the blade. And boy was I wrong to do this, could see two different layers on the face of the rubber due to different thickness of glue layers. Removed rubber from blade, this time the glue came of fairly easily and quickly in one go from the sponge without ripping off the sponge, applied one layer and let it dry and applied another and let it dry, then stuck the rubber back. Voila, played perfectly today :P Although finezip is hard to apply and it dries way too fast, I liked how I could take it off from the sponge and blade without leaving a residue and no apparent deformation of the sponge at all as the glue didn't seep into ht sponge at all. Just make sure you have two layers on the sponge otherwise it will rip small bits from the sponge when you remove it. |
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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used Nori Plus
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Which glue sheet did you try? I've read few good reviews on the Tibhar Duo glue sheet. Edited by DreiZ - 10/19/2015 at 4:39pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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In my opinion WBG is just for sticking the rubber to the blade. I haven't noticed that one glue results in overwhelmingly better playing properties than another (although I do notice differences in sticking around the outer margins of the blade and how flat the topsheet looks after gluing). I do notice it takes about 3 days before I like the feel but that seems to be true for all of them. Revolution claims that it adds something to the way the rubber plays. I really couldn't feel anything like that throughout the one bottle of the stuff that I had. If it has any effect, it is subtle. One good thing about Revolution is that it really comes very clean off the sponge, so if you reglue rubbers or switch rubbers from one blade to another, it is a good choice. I don't generally do that, and you really do need to do multiple layers as they recommend. I am just too impatient for that. That also means I can't really advise you on whether you can try some other glue after initially gluing with Finezip. I've never tried it (but I would personally be surprised if it matters).
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lineup32
Gold Member Joined: 12/06/2012 Location: Calif Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
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A few months ago I started using a glue sheet and today I moved the original set of rubbers to another blade that I use on my robot. I was surprised to see that sponges on both sides of my playing blade appeared new it would have been difficult to visual guess the difference between new and used on the sponge side other then the used one's were cut. My only take on it was that glues do impact the sponge whether they impact the life of the sponge I have no idea.
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unstopabl3
Silver Member Joined: 06/16/2011 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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Also I'd like to know that, if I've used Finezip on the rubbers, is it a bad idea to reglue the rubbers with a different glue now on the same blade, let's say with Free Chack???
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unstopabl3
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Since you've experienced playing with different glues, do you think any of these WBG glues improve the playing characteristics of the rubbers? I've also heard rumors that applying multiple layers of finezip on the sponge, make the rubbers faster/spinnier, but I am not at a high level to see such difference. What's your say? |
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Baal
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I think FC II is better than FC because I get a more even layer of glue. I use Tenergy rubbers. I was not aware that FC II was made specifically for Tenergy. If it is, well all I can say is they definitely got it right. It ought to work just as well for other thick pored rubbers, like Evolution, etc.
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unstopabl3
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Exactly, I'm not liking finezip either but since I've spent quite a lot on it I'll have to finish it. Would you say Free Chack II is better or worse than Free Chack 1??? Is it not specifically for Tenergy rubbers? |
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Baal
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It is fairly thin, actually, perhaps a little thicker than FC, but not a great deal more. Definitely less viscous than Finezip. Comes in a bottle, whereas Finezip comes in a tube. The bottle is designed so the FCII comes out in little drops so you don't inadvertently make a mess. I then use foam paint brushes to get even spreading (with wooden handles, you can buy them at Home Depot or Amazon). I like it because it spreads very evenly, and the rate it dries is not too fast (so you get very even layers) and not too slow (so it doesn't take forever). I used two layers on the blade and one on the sponge. Very good adhesion even along edges, and comes away from the blade without taking chunks of wood. Rubber is very flat after gluing. I like it better than Revolution 3 because I don't want to use so many coats of glue as they recommend for Rev 3 (and I don't buy into the idea that the multiple coats of Rev3 improves play performance). I like it better than Finezip because it spreads more evenly without drying and like some other people, with Finezip the adhesion around edges of blade was not quite perfect. I like it better than the DOnic Blue Contact because it is less likely to damage the blade surface when removing rubbers. |
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unstopabl3
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Yes exactly like my experience, my rubbers were Adidas P7 and Yasaka Rakza 7 soft, the Adidas rubber had a weak bond near the edges as the rubber is coming off now |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Is it a thin glue? from what I read FC II suppose to be thicker than FC.
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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Baal
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I didn't find Finezip easy to use. These days I am using Butterfly Free Chack II. It gives good results for me.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Hey, sorta like my experience. ^
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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I recently bought Nittaku Finezip glue and tried it for the first time. First I put one layer on MXP sponge and since the glue is pretty thick it didn't spread evenly. It took a while to dry, I would say 10-15 minutes for it to become almost clear. I had to do 2 more layers to get a thicker coating because I was afraid it would not stick properly onto the blade. Had to use a blow-dryer for it to dry completely. On the blade, I used only 1 layer and it dried within 2 minutes. Really fast. I didn't like how it spread so I peeled it off and that was pretty easy. Did a new layer with no problems. I don't think I'm a big fan of thick glues though. I feel like for porous sponges a thinner more watery WB glue will spread more evenly and fill in pores better. Coming from Free Chack, this glue wasn't as good as I thought it would be. Edges weren't bonded as strong as with free chack. I haven't changed this rubber yet but I don't think ill have problems taking it off since Finezip is known for that. I guess there is always a trade off for strong adhesion and bad peel off, or weak adhesion and easy peel off. Did anyone else have this experience with porous sponge rubbers and finezip? From all the videos I've watched where Finezip was used, all rubbers had a regular non-porous sponge, so I'm thinking maybe thicker glues are better for non-porous sponge and thinner glue for porous?... Just thinking. I've used Free Chack with Tenergy and had a really good bond and even spread with just one layer. Considering MXP is even more porous than tenergy, I think I might need to find another watery/thinner WBG.
Edited by DreiZ - 10/18/2015 at 10:34pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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ThePongProfessor
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I have tried the combo glue approach and am not impressed. The paddle palace glue seems to do the trick. And rubber cement is a pain to work with (You have to apply it on one-third of the blade at a time otherwise it dries up before your eyes. I am to try diluting it with some hexane, heptane or pertroleum ether.
Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 10/18/2015 at 9:57pm |
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