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Tibhar Evolution MX-S |
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Joo Se Kev
Super Member Joined: 03/06/2006 Location: USA Status: Online Points: 208 |
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Posted: 01/15/2019 at 6:35am |
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Super late to the party on this one, but thought I'd post my quick first impressions of this rubber:
Coming from the Victas VS>401 2.0mm, I felt a significant boost in speed with the 2.1mm MX-S on the TSP Trinity Carbon blade. I used the VS>401 on the Victas Matsushita blade for the past few years with great success, but once I switched to the Trinity Carbon, it didn't have quite enough punch. I'd say the general consensus on this rubber is correct: Good dwell and control, fairly spin insensitive, GREAT potential for spin, and plenty of power. This isn't an autopilot rubber, however. You need to actively stroke the ball and keep your swing speed up to get the most out of this rubber. I've only had about 5 hours of play on it, so I'll come back and update my thoughts if things change!
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Veet
Super Member Joined: 10/19/2017 Location: Googlaframchim Status: Offline Points: 291 |
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Thanks for the suggestions .. The Victas VS>401, is typically recommended by almost everyone...The main reason I've not considered it is the pricing, which I find rather steep... Another reason is the weight.. Given my shoulder and elbow issues, It's been suggested that I use something light-medium. Plus, I hear, that the Defplay Senso, has a tendency to turn head-heavy. The Aurus Select is something I've tried (another club member's), and apart from it being kind of fast, I really liked the rubber.. However, it's priced around the same as Victas. So, out. Are you sure the Vega Intro is not a tensor ? This seems like a good option (perhaps, even in max)... fits the budget too. The Genesis too seems like it may work.. but it's a tad over my budget.. |
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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Rubbers that come to mind are Victas V-01 (45 degree), Tibhar Aurus Soft (42.5 degree but with stiff topsheet so feels like 45), Tibhar Aurus Select (45 degree) and Gewo Hype KR Pro (47.5 degree but plays softer). Others may have other suggestions.
There is a review of the Aurus lineup here: https://www.tt-spin.de/tibhar-aurus-belagtest/ Gewo Hype KR Pro: https://www.tt-spin.de/gewo-hype-kr-pro-47-5/ Vega Into would be another option which does not have a tensor sponge so would offer the most control and reasonable spin. Stiga Genesis S has moderate catapult compared to the rubbers above but the potential to add more spin. Vega Intro: https://www.tt-spin.de/xiom-vega-intro/ Genesis S: https://www.tt-spin.de/stiga-genesis-s/
Edited by MydasDiablo - 03/17/2018 at 3:58am |
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Veet
Super Member Joined: 10/19/2017 Location: Googlaframchim Status: Offline Points: 291 |
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Yep... Late... Pretty much describes my footwork.... You also use the word Planted ...My feet are always well-planted, and stay that way..... Too well-planted, for my own good. My upper-body and arm reflexes, on the other-hand, are almost cat-like. I'd prefer an all-around rubber, that requires less effort (I have shoulder and elbow problems) to produce moderate speed/power, high'ish spin, and decent passive blocks
Edited by Veet - 03/17/2018 at 1:26am |
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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MX-S is not dead in the way chinese rubbers are, it is still a tensor rubber and has a kick to it. It just takes much more impact force to get the same kick out of it as say MX-P, but if you smack it on a flat hit then it reaches a similar top end speed. The main differences with MX-P are in the short game where MX-S allows you to use much more wrist on pushes without sending the ball long (so you get much heavier spin), and when looping you need to force the ball more with good use of the legs/body (or if you are built like NextLevel just your arms might be enough with good arm speed) to get the speed, the spin is there regardless as it grips the plastic ball like crazy. MX-P on the other hand allows you to just brush using the topsheet even with a flailing arm when you are late to the ball and you get speed and a fair amount of spin. The key to using MX-S successfully is to make sure you are planted when you play the shot, then you get a result that in my view is squarely in the middle of what you get with MX-P and H3N in terms of spin and speed. It's the most linear rubber I have used with this much spin and speed and it has almost unlimited gears. If MX-P is too fast for you and H3N too slow and too demanding, but you like rubbers in that hardness range and you favour spin, placement and tactical play over raw power and forgiveness when late to the ball (MX-P and T05 are incredible at producing quality shots when late to the ball due to the kick from the sponge and consistent grip and throw from the topsheet) then MX-S is worth a try. This is all really nothing that hasn't been said before in this thread.
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Veet
Super Member Joined: 10/19/2017 Location: Googlaframchim Status: Offline Points: 291 |
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Also the Xiom Vega Pro, Asia AND the Omega Pro, Asia
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Veet
Super Member Joined: 10/19/2017 Location: Googlaframchim Status: Offline Points: 291 |
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I hope it's nothing like the DHS Hurriance Neo 3... I've played with it on my FH, and I'm not sure if it suits me... It requires text-book technique, and too much effort, to effectively put it to use. The contact on my top-spins/loops is a lot fuller, and lacking in brush. Also, I almost always passive-block (simply having the racquet in the right place, the right time), at times, by simply stretching-out my arms.
Edited by Veet - 03/16/2018 at 5:22am |
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Stavros
Gold Member Joined: 12/02/2006 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Can someone compare MX-S to Acuda Blue P1 ?
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InfinityVPS - D80 - D05
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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MX-S in 1.9mm will suit this style of play, I personally really dislike softer bouncy rubbers and don't find them forgiving at all, but then I don't tend to loop through the sponge that much so I don't get the best out of them.
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Veet
Super Member Joined: 10/19/2017 Location: Googlaframchim Status: Offline Points: 291 |
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My game is somewhat, like what you've described above... I play close to the table, and don't play very many power-shots, relying mostly on angles, placements, high spin. Recently, due to several issues, with my elbow, shoulders, knees, and general stiffness, I've decided to switch to a LP on my BH, and have got myself a Defplay Senso V3 blade. My arms move a lot faster, than my legs. I've got myself Pogo LP, which I hear is decent for a LP beginner. For the FH, I've got the Xiom Vega Europe (max), but I find it bouncy. My forehand top-spins/loops are rather Spinny, with Medium pace.. Do you think the MX-S (1.9mm) would suite my play, or shall I retain the XVE (max), or drop the XVE from MAX to 1.8-2.0mm ? |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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I think people should take a look at the Dynamic Friction upgrade versions of OVA and OVT. I am still testing OVA and will report back in a month but the DF version was an upgrade on the original that I didn't know about but which I think makes it significantly grippier which was exactly what one reviewer was requesting...
http://blog.tabletennis11.com/xiom-omega-v-pro-euro-asia-tour-reviews
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ohwell
Super Member Joined: 08/04/2017 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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I haven’t used both for MX-S, just the 1.9, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But generally, thinner sponge lets you feel the wood/blade a bit more. It shouldn’t feel softer. As for spin, afaik it mostly depends on how hard you and your opp counter loop. Thing about Mx-S is that it’s hard enough for 1.9 to be more than enough sponge for most players. (See Nextlevel’s videos and comments.) Also, at least in theory, the advantage of max sponge on loop at a given hardness should be greater on rubbers that favor a thicker contact on loops than for rubbers that favor brushing (like MX-S). From what I understand, the less we engage the sponge on loops, the lower the returns from an extra .2mm of sponge. That said, from the very linear behavior on 1.9 I would be surprised if there were big downsides to max sponge. That is, except for weight, and most likely a bit less blade feel. |
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FinalFight
Member Joined: 01/27/2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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How does this rubber hold up in humid conditions compared with T 05? This is an area where it rains several times per week and so it can be very unpredictable playing. Last weekend was such a day where the humidity was so high that I went through all three of my shirts within a couple of hours and had to play later matches in a completely drenched shirt and with sweat running down my arms. Ended up losing the tournament to a guy nearly 300 points lower whose style I know well and have won about 90% of our previous matches. Also nearly lost to a flat hittting smasher about 800 pts lower that day who upset another guy roughly 700-800 pts higher. Loops are about impossible under those conditions and just die into the bottom of the net or just short of it while blocks often hit the paddle and fell off about an inch away. I might've played that day better with a slick premade.
Edited by FinalFight - 02/27/2018 at 12:05pm |
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Stavros
Gold Member Joined: 12/02/2006 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1540 |
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Can someone compare MX-S to Quantum ?
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InfinityVPS - D80 - D05
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danjacob02
Member Joined: 03/24/2016 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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Amen, I currently use MX-S on my Tibhar Cedric Nuytinck blade in 2.1. And I play a semi-modern defender style so I'm curious of their differences. I wonder if a thinner sponge would allow me to attack and chop easier.
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AndiHL
Member Joined: 05/23/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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It would be really great if someone could answer this question :) Does the 2.1 feels noticably softer than the 1.9? And does the 2.1 really has more power and spin? Edited by AndiHL - 02/27/2018 at 9:54am |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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If you say so. The strength of the rubber is opening up, the throw is about how you approach the ball and it seems you think you are supposed to loop a certain way to get a certain throw. I don't know anything that can create as much versatility in the arcs, you pretty much determine the trajectory you want. Of Course If You Want To Hit The Ball The Way You Hit Tenergy TheN You May Not Like It. It's not a rocket launcher but neither is Hurricane 3, it always comes back to what you are trying to do and how you win points.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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Now that depends on which blade you pair it with, found it tough to open up when paired with stiff, low throw blade which requires you to brush the ball up. Most mid-flexy blades like bty alc blades or flexy 5 plies like tibhar stratus pw, bty korbel etc go really well with mx-s, basically you need to go through the ball while playing a topspin stroke with this rubber and hence pairing it with a flex blade kinda makes you swing forward. Many top players that have clean strokes love the mx-s since it is really linear and rewards good timing. |
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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SmackDAT
Platinum Member Joined: 01/01/2012 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2231 |
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My opinion of MX-S was it's super easy to counter and block/punch but super hard to open up with a modern looping game, good rubber with a lot of spin but low throw and not a lot of all out attackers would find it versatile enough on the fh
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danjacob02
Member Joined: 03/24/2016 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 91 |
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What's the difference in feel of the MX-S in 2.1 and in 1.9mm??
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ohwell
Super Member Joined: 08/04/2017 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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I'm amazed by the feel of MX-S in 1.9mm. (Thanks for the pointer, Nextlevel. I'm used to max sponge on other rubbers.) I get clear feedback on even the thinnest, most gentle contact.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Great post. Whether you stick with the rubber long term or not you clearly get what the rubber is built to do. If you are trying to power loop the ball past people using European strokes there are far better rubbers. But if you want to serve heavy, push heavy, flat hit or block safely and sometimes play with heavy SPIN, I can't think of an Euro rubber that supports that variation other than Omega V Asia.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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MydasDiablo
Super Member Joined: 06/03/2017 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 385 |
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I like MX-S a lot more than I thought I would having got more used to it, been playing it on my DD Terminator, the speed of the blade is good for the rubber but the hardness of the Koto/ZLC outer layers is perhaps too much in combination with the hard sponge of MX-S. I am going to try it on my Spin Offensive 3 today as maybe the softer spruce on the SO3 plus its bouncy nature from the thick Kiri core will harmonise better with MX-S. One thing is for sure, even having used MX-P and T05 for
years, the spin on MX-S when you catch it right on a medium speed brush loop is
the highest from any rubber I have ever used, other than maybe Hurricane 3 when
new. I have also not seen so many of my pushes dumped in the net as you can add
spin to the push with your wrist without fear of engaging the sponge and
sending it long. For all out attackers wanting to loop every ball MX-P and T05 are surely better, but if
you play a more strategic game and want something reliable to get over the line
when you are 10-10 in the fifth, MX-S is the one. Experience playing with MX-S Black Max on Double Day Terminator ZLC side: I have found with MX-S that I can win with consistency
rather than power. At first, I tried to play with it like I would all the other
German tensors and power loop anything off the table, result was 50% on the
table without sufficient speed (I don't use straight arm and not enough use of
body), 50% straight into the net. This is the experience I read from most
posters testing MX-S and like them I thought this isn't for me. This week I used it in my league matches, after losing a
game against an average opponent my team mate (who is 19 and a very high level
player having been coached at National level as a Junior) said to me to stop
trying to overpower my opponent with loops and smashes and simply get the ball
on table, but vary the spin and placement to keep him moving and having to play
different shots to counter the spin. So I stopped trying to power loop and
concentrated on well placed blocks low over net, heavy pushes to his backhand,
chops with OX LP from distance, rolls with OX LP close to the table, then the
odd slower spinny brush loop when I got the perfect ball to execute it
(unreturnable spin with MX-S IMHO). This strategy actually used far less effort on my part than
trying to smack him off the table, as I usually would with MX-P, and I think
without realising it I probably lost as many points as I gained trying to do
that with MX-P because of hitting the odd one long off the table, blocking long
off their heavy spin loops, putting too much wrist into a push and sending it
long etc. I thought I loved the feeling of smacking a loop or a smash past
someone so much that I wouldn't give it up just because a rubber won't support
those shots at sufficient speed or consistency to have a high success rate (MX-S will but not without proper use of your body or a strong arm - neither of which I manage to achieve in a fast rally),
however winning games can actually be just as addictive. Another shot I can play with MX-S that I couldn't with the standard bouncy tensors is a sidespin loop on a mid table ball into the corners just behind the net on the opponent's side. I have found this is a better approach to balls I used to come in and try and smash or flick, you can keep it short on their side and so wide they either can't get to it or if they fish it back you can hit it to the other side of the table for a winner while they are out of position. I found that the more I brought the ball back on table time after time, the more frustrated the opponent got and in the end they would overstretch on a shot trying to hit it harder/spinnier to get it past me and hit it long or in the net. The other thing to consider is that at the level I am playing at if I play a fast game on the FH with hard looping, it plays into the opponent's hands as that is how everyone else in the league plays. They are used to dealing with spin and speed and can simply counter into corners when I am out of position and trying to recover from hitting a hard loop. This slower more considered strategy allows me to be in the ready position at all times so with my slower footwork I can still get to the ball no matter where they put it. Clearly I have a particular style, with OX LP backhand I can play disturbing off serves and pushes and modern defence from distance, so the characteristics of MX-S may not suit everyone. But if you are willing to dial down the shot power and play more strategically with variation in shot selection, spin and placement, I can't think of a better rubber to support that game. I absolutely agree with NextLevel (who has used it more than most so the most weight must go to his opinions on MX-S) that if you stick at it and practice long enough with MX-S, you can play with it like a spin enhanced version of Karis. Just get everything back on the table and when the opportunity presents itself and you are in perfect position to execute a spinny loop or drive with full use of your body, hit a winner. As I said earlier above, if you catch that sucker right, the spin is insane. |
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HarmonicTT
Super Member Joined: 09/04/2017 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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If anyone wants to try it out I have a like new sheet for 20 shipped red max
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nv42
Super Member Joined: 01/22/2013 Location: india Status: Offline Points: 466 |
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If ppl judge throw using a drive kinda loop where they hit through the sponge, then yeah, you can consider mx-s low throw. But if you have a topsheet dominant loop, that is, even when using the sponge you expand it tangentially instead of compressing it inwards, then mx-s feels higher throw. Don't know how to explain this better, but in sure someone must've written down a better explanation somewhere.
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1.dhs pg2 fl
-FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
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carmelomaf
Silver Member Joined: 07/18/2009 Location: Munich Status: Offline Points: 920 |
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I'm playing with mxs and t05 and i can say that mxs has higher throw than t05 as well than aurus and aurus prime.
The Aurus rubbers has very low throw angle. I consider the mxs the best fh esn rubber but like all esn rubbers after 2 months you need to replace. |
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Tibhar MX-P 50 Max| BTY Boll ALC FL | Tibhar MX-S Max
an Italian playing TT in Germany |
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ohwell
Super Member Joined: 08/04/2017 Location: NY Status: Offline Points: 232 |
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I don't doubt that this is your experience of MX-S. But since you are offering this as advice: There are extensive discussions of MX-S' throw in this thread. You aren't the only one who considers it low throw. But this is far from unanimous. Although I'm not in a position to adjudicate, your 4 words assessment is almost certainly not the end of the story. |
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seguso
Gold Member Joined: 03/24/2010 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 1619 |
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mx-s is low throw, aurus is very high throw. completely different in that.
what you need is simply mx-p. :) |
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pg5x - mxd fh & bh - 2015 video
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AndiHL
Member Joined: 05/23/2017 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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anyone out there that can compare the MX-S to the Aurus?
I'm looking for a rubber of similar hardness but with a slightly higher throw for getting more consistence in my BH topspin vs. underspin.
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HarmonicTT
Super Member Joined: 09/04/2017 Location: Usa Status: Offline Points: 414 |
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Mxs is much more spinnier and doesn't top out like others have said. It is good for smashing as I do half and half of that along with loops loaded with spin. Mxs can play slow but fast if you swing into the ball. It's really not that hard to use. I just detest tenergy for inconsistent rebound although minimal now it wasn't before. But regardless it's a great rubber so is fxp
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