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Tibhar Evolution MX-S

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2015 at 12:25am
Got my sheets today - did a quick but not so tight glue job with it on my Samsonov Force Pro. I tested it alongside Adidas P7.  It was weird.  The spin is definitely special - my blocker was complaining about it.  I'm going to glue it again and try it tomorrow.  It has excellent control but doesn't give easy spin if you are out of position.  I hit with my blocker's Tenergy and that reminded me of what easy spin felt like when out of position.

The one place where I definitely disagree with Andy is on the boosting.  I smelt a heavy dose of booster on my sheet like MX-P.  I'm also 95% sure that this rubber and Rasant Grip come from the same family.

I'm going to take Andy's suggestion seriously and try it one of my Force Pro Black Editions.  See how that goes.


Edited by NextLevel - 04/21/2015 at 12:55am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2015 at 12:59am
Next Level, once you start making opening loops with less solid contact, you will love FX-P on your current blade.

Until then, from Tibhar Family I think only Aurus will suit you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2015 at 4:38am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

The one place where I definitely disagree with Andy is on the boosting.  I smelt a heavy dose of booster on my sheet like MX-P.  I'm also 95% sure that this rubber and Rasant Grip come from the same family.

That surprises me.  The booster smell I recall is the one you find on the original Bluefire M range, which is also on the original Evolutions (and Joola MAXX, and a few others of course).  MX-S just smells of rubber to me, like Tenzone Ultra, Rhyzm, Tibhar Q and so on.  I don't discount the possibility that my sense of smell has been destroyed by years of constant colds and flus kindly brought home by my plague-bearing children though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote *_strataras_* Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2015 at 4:50am
About factory tuning talking, I noticed that I had my racket in its case for about 2 weeks if i remember right and my MX-P was new.I put it at that time in an old case which the interior was from plastic and it is not like the new ones (butterfly etc), which are breathing a little.After I opened the case,which didnt let the rubbers to breath, I saw wetness on the sheet which was something oily and on the case that the rubber was touching too.This happened last year, and at that time didnt have any idea that they are factory tuned.On the other hand the EL-P had nothing.So the MX-P is 100% factory tuned, Idk about the other evolutions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manraid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/21/2015 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by *_strataras_* *_strataras_* wrote:

About factory tuning talking, I noticed that I had my racket in its case for about 2 weeks if i remember right and my MX-P was new.I put it at that time in an old case which the interior was from plastic and it is not like the new ones (butterfly etc), which are breathing a little.After I opened the case,which didnt let the rubbers to breath, I saw wetness on the sheet which was something oily and on the case that the rubber was touching too.This happened last year, and at that time didnt have any idea that they are factory tuned.On the other hand the EL-P had nothing.So the MX-P is 100% factory tuned, Idk about the other evolutions.



i have an mx-p new uncut sheet and i put in its case in a bag
is it useful to make the rubber breath ?

N.B. my rubber sheet is in its original case and not yet opened
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2015 at 7:25am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Got my sheets today - did a quick but not so tight glue job with it on my Samsonov Force Pro. I tested it alongside Adidas P7.  It was weird.  The spin is definitely special - my blocker was complaining about it.  I'm going to glue it again and try it tomorrow.  It has excellent control but doesn't give easy spin if you are out of position.  I hit with my blocker's Tenergy and that reminded me of what easy spin felt like when out of position.

The one place where I definitely disagree with Andy is on the boosting.  I smelt a heavy dose of booster on my sheet like MX-P.  I'm also 95% sure that this rubber and Rasant Grip come from the same family.

I'm going to take Andy's suggestion seriously and try it one of my Force Pro Black Editions.  See how that goes.

So many people love the Force Pro Black Edition - I have tried my best to understand that blade but I cannot. This blade is a perfect candidate for the Beast Mode modification.  Will probably weigh 800g after, but at least the balance will make sense.

I put MX-S back on my current blade and will play with that for a while.  Damn Force Pro Black wasted my whole training day...

That said, MX-S is very spinny... I just don't get the throw/arc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2015 at 8:25am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

That said, MX-S is very spinny... I just don't get the throw/arc.

I feel the same way.  During training I feel like a titan.  During actual match play I can't keep on top of the ball enough to be effective.

Maybe this is one of those rubbers which suits drive-based players with quick feet.  High-level juniors and the like.  It would certainly sort out any grip issues a current Rhyzm user would be experiencing, for example.  I think vic_the_cleaner would love it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2015 at 8:42am
They should call it MX-D then...

But seriously, its extremely heavy in weight too... Wipes Big Dipper in 38 deg off the map.but the spin is so good I will give it at least another week (which probably means another month)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GSOM_GSOM11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2015 at 7:11pm
Is MX-S smth like Palio Thors - heavy spin, extreme grip, hard tensor sponge, crack sound and lightning speed when you go for a max-power loopdrive? 
Did anyone try it on Barwell or any other blade with hard outer ply?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/22/2015 at 10:59pm
I'm curious about this rubber, but I'm confused about why people are asking if it's similar to rasant grip/power grip .... IMO mxp and elp have zero in common with rasant power grip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igszoctan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2015 at 1:06am
...as for me..because RPG is perfect and I wanna know if - more perfect - exists or not?Wacko


Edited by igszoctan - 04/23/2015 at 7:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/23/2015 at 6:36am
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

I'm curious about this rubber, but I'm confused about why people are asking if it's similar to rasant grip/power grip .... IMO mxp and elp have zero in common with rasant power grip.

MX-S is very different from MX-P etc.  I tried Rasant Grip and it's pretty similar IMO.  I never tried PowerGrip but I would be surprised if it was that different - maybe slightly higher or lower throw, who knows, but still similar.

What is bothering me about MX-S now is that the throw messes with how I think about my safety/backspin loops so I have to fix aspects of my technique on my forehand side.  It's like the rubber is exposing all my technical stroke deficiencies.  Which is a good thing, I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 1:38pm
So I gave MX-S another try and the rubber is good for away from the table players who like long trajectory, medium/low throw rubbers.  It rewards great timing and upward movement in your stroke more than say Tenergy or Hurricane 3, which encourage you to come forward more than upward.  The bottom line is that anyone looking for a Tenergy 05 substitute should not waste their money.  This is more of a Calibra LT+ type rubber.

I am going to stick with it for a bit because I think that it has exposed a lot of things that I need to fix on my forehand.  But it's purely developmental - I think few players would feel very comfortable with this rubber with all the pressure it places on the timing in your game.  Therefore, other than the immense spin, I have to not recommend this rubber to people looking for a good rubber to use to play a comfortable game unless they have really good timing and technique on whichever side they want to use it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

So I gave MX-S another try 

If MX-S does not work for you and if you're looking for a MX-P like rubber (similar hardness, grip level & topsheet type) but slower but with a lot more control, I recommend Rakza X. Slightly slower than Tenergy 05 and a shade less spinny but this rubber is today's Mark V in control. With the new tensors selling in low 30s nowadays (post-discounts), their prices have become very competitive with DHS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berkeleydoctor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

So I gave MX-S another try and the rubber is good for away from the table players who like long trajectory, medium/low throw rubbers.  It rewards great timing and upward movement in your stroke more than say Tenergy or Hurricane 3, which encourage you to come forward more than upward.  The bottom line is that anyone looking for a Tenergy 05 substitute should not waste their money.  This is more of a Calibra LT+ type rubber.

I am going to stick with it for a bit because I think that it has exposed a lot of things that I need to fix on my forehand.  But it's purely developmental - I think few players would feel very comfortable with this rubber with all the pressure it places on the timing in your game.  Therefore, other than the immense spin, I have to not recommend this rubber to people looking for a good rubber to use to play a comfortable game unless they have really good timing and technique on whichever side they want to use it.

this is exactly why i just bought 2 sheets of this. i want to exaggerate my bad strokes and my good strokes so i can work on the bad ones and mx-s will rewards me or punish me according to my timing and technique!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/24/2015 at 5:53pm
MX-S has become the strangest piece of training equipment I've ever seen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puyol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 7:17am
Weren't the Evolution series rubbers HCP (Hybrid Construction Project), and thus not entirely, or not at all, ESN?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 10:53am
Originally posted by puyol puyol wrote:

Weren't the Evolution series rubbers HCP (Hybrid Construction Project), and thus not entirely, or not at all, ESN?

Marketing rubbish IMO.  It's 100% ESN-made.  The best you can say is that it was made with some input from experts in the Japanese manufacturing industry - topsheet specs, pimple geometry, that kind of thing.  Victas have tried a similar thing in recent times with their "German-Japanese Cooperation" blurb, but these are NOT Japanese topsheets stuck on to German sponges IMO.  Perhaps you could describe them as ESN rubbers which are made to emulate a Japanese feel.  If so, the Victas rubbers are more successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 5:55pm

I think I am at a stage where I would recommend this rubber, but I would dissuade anyone looking for a Tenergy 05 substitute from taking it too seriously - a Calibra LT+ lover who wants a real rubber should take a good look at this.  If I tried it again, I would probably get it in 1.9mm as I am sure that would help with the weight and control issues.  But it's going to be a great rubber for some people.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I think I am at a stage where I would recommend this rubber, but I would dissuade anyone looking for a Tenergy 05 substitute from taking it too seriously - a Calibra LT+ lover who wants a real rubber should take a good look at this.  If I tried it again, I would probably get it in 1.9mm as I am sure that would help with the weight and control issues.  But it's going to be a great rubber for some people.


Totally agree.  It's not for me though.  I had an absolute blast with H8 tonight, so MX-S gets the ebay elbow treatment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 6:13pm
Having gone through this thread, i can't help but think that the MX-S is somewhat similar to the Victas VS-402 I currently use on my FH.

I suppose I'll have to get a sheet and try it.

In the glue days I used Tibhar Rapid X-Press: hard sponge, extremely grippy topsheet and low/medium throw.  Ever since gluing went illegal I have been trying to find something similar with minimal luck.  I have retrained myself to use T80 on the BH, but on the FH, when pushed, I still automatically revert to my original stroke that is a lot more vertical than modern high throw rubbers like.

Xiom Tau does not do too well with that stroke.  None of the Tenergies do.  Victas VS-402 is not bad, but MX-S sounds like it might do the trick.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/27/2015 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by AndySmith AndySmith wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I think I am at a stage where I would recommend this rubber, but I would dissuade anyone looking for a Tenergy 05 substitute from taking it too seriously - a Calibra LT+ lover who wants a real rubber should take a good look at this.  If I tried it again, I would probably get it in 1.9mm as I am sure that would help with the weight and control issues.  But it's going to be a great rubber for some people.


Totally agree.  It's not for me though.  I had an absolute blast with H8 tonight, so MX-S gets the ebay elbow treatment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/28/2015 at 4:47am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Chinese FH, Chinese BH, Waldner blade???
 
Table tennis truly knows no country...
 

If you had told me 12 months ago that this is where I would end up, I would have laughed in your face.  And yet here we are.  There is a strange symmetry to this - 22 years ago my first "proper" setup was a Tibhar Rapid Carbon with 729-FX on both sides.  The new DHS rubbers are a nice surprise, and the slight tack of these two in particular helps me a lot when moving between cell and plastic.  It helps a bit when I've got less than adequate position or timing (which is most of the time tbf).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 6:09am
I'm now playing with the MX-S in my FH instead of the T05 I've had for two years.

I agree mostly with what's been said: it's significantly heavier, less bouncy, more grippy than T05. It's slower at low speed, quite dead actually, and also more powerful, faster in the top gear.

It's better controlled in passive game and for blocking, very precise when attacking, but it's more demanding away from the table – the arc is lower and it's less bouncy, so it needs more commitment. I struggle a bit more in loop on loop as the ball goes into the net, I think it's something to get used to.

It does play a bit like a boosted Chinese rubber, but without the flat hitting problem. It's absolutely lethal on smashes.

Overall it's a very good rubber, though more demanding than T05 for power loopers. I just wish it was lighter and a tad bouncier, with the same grip.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 9:00am
What blade do you use, Bran?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 4:08pm
I'm considering trying it on the Hypertouch. I really didn't like the flex back then, but it could make up for the deadness of the rubber.

I tried a boosted MX-S on a Viscaria Light, it felt easier to play, partly due to the extra flex.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 4:12pm
That's part of the reason I asked.  Maybe it might do okay on a stiff blade in some fast hands, but it does best for me on my ALL/ALL+ Appelgren AR.  I get something much more like the arc I am looking for and I have the dwell to drive the ball hard and get decent dip (not Tenergy 05, but the shot feels safe despite not having the usual arc).  And the spin is massive as always.

Would like to hear more of your thoughts over time since you are coming straight from T05.  I don't think as a T05 user I could have persevered with this rubber - it forces me to do a stroke everytime I use it if I want to put my opponent in danger.  T05 allows for more laziness.


Edited by NextLevel - 05/27/2015 at 4:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qualizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by Bran Bran wrote:

I'm considering trying it on the Hypertouch. I really didn't like the flex back then, but it could make up for the deadness of the rubber.

I tried a boosted MX-S on a Viscaria Light, it felt easier to play, partly due to the extra flex.

with a boosted MX-S, would it feel more like MX-P ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bran Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2015 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Would like to hear more of your thoughts over time since you are coming straight from T05.  I don't think as a T05 user I could have persevered with this rubber - it forces me to do a stroke everytime I use it if I want to put my opponent in danger.  T05 allows for more laziness.


Do you mean you wouldn't have been able to go on with the T05 or with the MX-S? I'm confused by your sentence on the T05 while you say you use the MX-S now.

I've said most of what I could about the two rubbers, so I'm just gonna rephrase and expand.

Nutshell comparison: extra power but less lively. Better on blocking and power shots but worse away from the table. Equivalent in short game. Very heavy.

My FH is focused around speed and power, trying to finish as early as I can. I'm not too concerned about the behaviour in slow loops, but I do care about how it reacts when power looping, in speed and for spin.

My feedback was that my loops were at least as fast, and about as spinny, maybe a little less. I found no clear difference in the dip after a loop. So it's pretty good for this. However, to reach the same speed, I need to work a bit harder than with the T05, and I'm a little worried this could be an issue in tight spots or when I tense up.

Max speed is faster, if only because the extra weight mechanically makes me swing harder. The power on full-out smashes really impressed me, though obviously you don't get to use that a lot.

Blocking feels easier than with T05 because of the deadness and the extra weight. Feels a bit like or neutralises the incoming spin. Incidentally, it also made my BH block more stable.

Short game quality is similar to T05, for both touch and flick. Serves are fine too, no major adaptation time.

Counters are fine, again the deadness of the rubber makes me want to swing harder to get the same easy speed as with T05, but possibly the control is better.

Again, away from the table, bit harder to play than T05. It's a matter of habit but my second counterloop rarely made it above the net. For some reason the first one was often in the net.
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