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Tibhar Evolution MX-S |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Posted: 04/08/2015 at 6:51am |
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Just had my sheet arrive - Black, Max, 73g uncut, 179x168mm (same vital stats as MX-P really) . Cut to 151x156 the weight is 48.88g, which is around the standard for max thickness, hard ESN rubbers these days. Many thanks to Matthias Landfried over at tt-shop.net for the help in getting a sheet sorted!
This is a different beast to the rest of the Evo range. The sponge is different - smaller-pored, and without the booster smell which was so obvious on the original Evolutions and Bluefire Ms. It's obviously still a hard sponge though. The topsheet is monstrously grippy when you run a finger down it, and reasonably stiff. It feels like the grippiest ESN topsheet I've ever experienced. For comparison, I have a sheet of Omega V Asia here which has a far softer topsheet, less grip to the finger, and feels softer than MX-S overall despite having a harder sponge. I guess it's going to be very stable. Once on the blade, MX-S has a hard, definite feel when bouncing a ball, with a dull "thock" sound. It feels fairly fast without feeling overly bouncy. The spin test is the headline news though - massive. Small wrist movement = big reaction on the following bounce. Full-size pics are available here. I gave it the full 3 hour treatment last night with Stiga's 40+ seamed ball. It wasn't long enough for a full review because it was more of a coaching session and I didn't play a wide enough range of strokes in the depth I want. I'll be back with a more formal review next week, so I'll just give some rambling comments for now. MX-S was on the FH side of my regular Samsonov Pure Wood blade, and on my backup Pure Woods I had Big Dipper and Tenzone Ultra (BH rubbers on all 3 are Airoc M). Warm-Up I was slightly disappointed for the first 10 minutes. During the initial loop-counterhit warm-up MX-S didn't feel particularly "special" at all (meaning that no overriding quality jumped out at me). It was incredibly stable and easy to use, the arc was medium and nothing dramatic happened. At this point the only thing that jumped out at me was how easy the counterhit was, even against heavy loop. For comparison, I had a higher arc with both BD and TZU on the backup blades, but counterhits and blocks were more difficult. Serve, Loop Against Backspin, Loop against Block Exercise I then switched to a serve, push long, loop against backspin, block, loop/drive against block, free exercise. This is where MX-S made a lot more sense. On the serve, you notice a real lack of bounce. This helps to keep serves short and tight, and also encourages you to add a lot more wrist action, which in turn results in big spin. This is an excellent rubber for serving, and all the associated other short game bits. Then the long push comes in, and you loop against backspin. I'm not overstating things here when I say that this is the easiest rubber for lifting backspin that I've ever tried. It absolutely eats pushes and chops alive. I usually have to warm up my backspin-lifting strokes for a few minutes to get my bat angles adjusted after a counterhit warm-up, but not this time. I genuinely didn't miss a single one during the exercise. And then the loop/drive against block, which revealed another interesting point. Driving the ball is very easy with MX-S, but it is noticeably slower than hard ESN rubbers from previous generations (MX-P and M1 are the obvious touchstones). You have to generate some power yourself on basic drives or you can offer up an easy ball. There were times when I stepped around to use FH from the BH wing and I ran out of room to get a full stroke in. The drive produced was a bit weak, and the court was obviously totally opened up. You need to be fully committed to get the rewards in this scenario. However, looping the ball against block is easy and very effective. In fact, taking a more Chinese approach and loop-driving more often than not was the most efficient and consistent approach for me in general during the session. I stuck with this exercise (and slight variations in placement) for a full hour. I felt that it was giving me a good insight into how MX-S was working. After that we did some matchplay... Matchplay The qualities I'd seen during the exercises stayed true during the match. Short game was truly great, counter hits and blocks excellent. The FH flick isn't my best shot (needs work), but MX-S seemed good here too, although the lack of extreme arc did mean that I needed to get to the peak of the bounce - there wasn't a lot of leeway if the ball dropped. The main points worth talking about were during open play. Basic topspin drives had a medium arc, and the arc then doesn't change much when you start to load the ball up with topspin. With this comes the ability to disguise the level of topspin to some degree - the arc doesn't give the game away. Adding wrist to a loop brings heavy spin with ease. Summary so far Positives? Solidity and control - it's very easy to use, predictable, low catapult and linear. Good (but not wild) pace. High spin potential. Zero feeling of slippage with 40+. Super easy to vary spin, depth and placement during loop-loop play. Autopilot when lifting backspin. Downsides? The medium arc isn't forgiving of positional problems, so recovery strokes on the run aren't as easy as some rubbers. And it isn't the fastest rubber around, which makes drives a little weaker (although that will be related to my blade choice to some degree - a faster blade will make this less obvious). I'm nitpicking here though.
Edited by AndySmith - 04/09/2015 at 6:40am |
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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szikorz
Member Joined: 09/05/2011 Location: EU Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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Great, we can´t wait for the performace comaprison to MX-P. Enjoy..
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Stiga Clipper Wood CR WRB - Fh: Yasaka Rakza 7 - Bh: Tibhar 5Q
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NoRema
Silver Member Joined: 02/04/2015 Location: On The Table Status: Offline Points: 564 |
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what blade did you put it on?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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It's on my usual Pure Wood for now. I'll give it a bash on the adidas hypertouch next week for comparison's sake.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Big Dipper about to get MX-terminated from Andy's blade...
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I am very interested to hear about this one.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I'm not so sure, but you never know. I've had a great season with BD, but it was a celluloid season. Perversely, I'm liking it less with the recent plastic training I've been doing, and I seem to play a lot better with an old favorite of mine - Tenzone Ultra. My blade could be having an influence here, but I really like it and I'm reluctant to change. I'm on the cusp of switching to TZU, but if MX-S gives more grip with no great compromise in other areas then I may reconsider. The main issues for me are stability and outright speed. I found MX-P to be very stable, but a bit too fast for my needs, which leads us nicely into MX-S. But honestly - the grip on MX-S is really something else. I did my usual spin test and the ball (celluloid - just laying around in my study) flew off almost at a right-angle.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Magic_M
Platinum Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2219 |
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Full agreement to Andy`s first impressions:
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Wow - great photos. I really need to learn how to use my camera one day...
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Magic_M
Platinum Member Joined: 05/31/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2219 |
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But you are a (much) better player and reviewer. It seems, that we are a dream-team:
my pictures together with your review = a nice thread.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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And you are far more sarcastic! I'm sure that TT-playing border collie from earlier in the week could give me a close game.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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LOG1C1AN
Super Member Joined: 04/22/2013 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 303 |
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I thought the trend for the bigger plastic balls was toward larger pore sponges.
Sometimes I think manufacturers change their product line like fashion. If big ties were in last season then we can expect skinny ties next season. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Brother, I hear you on speed. I play close to the table, I tend to hit the ball with pretty solid contact these days and my blade is faster than yours. It's also been a while for you with the Big Dipper so I am pretty impressed that it kept you this long. For me, its been 6 mths now. I looped with a club mate's T5000 with T80 and was surprised that my looping technique held up well, so I might do some testing at the end of April again. That said, I don't see anything without extremely high topsheet grip coming to the party so its either going to be T05, MX-S/P or P7 and its more likely I will change on the backhand than on the forehand. And its even more likely that I won't change at all as there is something infinitely sexy about using $100 setups to beat up on $300 setups... |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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viktorovich
Super Member Joined: 04/08/2009 Status: Offline Points: 294 |
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? EL-S ... the next ?
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BaiMile
Member Joined: 10/10/2011 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Is MX-S similar to Grip S Euro?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I think it's quite possible that they will introduce EL-S and FX-S to fill the range up. Makes commercial sense, and I'm sure ESN will have the sponge options available.
Not really. Grip S Euro is a chinese rubber - a rebadged Haifu Blue Whale II (or slight variation of). That said, MX-S's grip is really high so transitioning to it from a chinese rubber is very possible.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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t64t64t64
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Hello Andy ,
would you compare this rubber to Baracuda & 05 . In term of speed and spin. Control is too individual(personal) for everyone :) |
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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61764&PID=734709
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I've just updated the review with some initial ramblings. I'm hesitant to start the comparisons with so few hours on the table. Also, it's becoming hard to directly compare from memory because I last used T05 and Baracuda with celluloid, and I've only used MX-S with plastic so far. If I had to vaguely wave my hands around at this stage I would say that MX-S does have the levels of grip you'd associate with these two, but the topsheet is stiffer and harder. Also, MX-S's sponge isn't as lively as T05 or Baracuda either. This makes MX-S a lot easier to use while retaining high spin potential. Speed is around the T05 level, a bit faster than Baracuda. I understand people will want a comparison with T05. At this stage, MX-S is a slower, spinnier variation on MX-P - I can say that with confidence at this point. For those people who thought that MX-P was a good alternative to T05 - I think that MX-S is closer in many ways and is well worth a go. But it still doesn't have the low-effort grab of T05. Of course, this makes MX-S much easier to use...
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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Baal
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I think I will violate my self-imposed policy of not buying anythign I haven't tried before. But where can you buy MX-S?
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bogeyhunter
Gold Member Joined: 02/22/2006 Location: Jacksonville, F Status: Offline Points: 1245 |
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Gonna order 3-4 sheets of these bad boys to test!!!
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www.NexyUSA.com
We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
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Hans Regenkurt
Silver Member Joined: 08/12/2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 826 |
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I appreciate that Andy took the effort to post this review. Based on what he says, I understand this rubber will not redeem the world and break Tenergy's dominance. It will be an okay rubber from the hardest ESN kind but there might be other rubbers out there for a more modest price that have the same potential.
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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I hope that Tibhar pays Andy for this or at least send a couple other rubbers to test..free.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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kevo
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: ireland Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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Great review and thread, as always, Andy. I just finished my last celluloid season with Andro Rasant Turbo, which I have used for over a year now--FH only, nasty LPs on the BH--and loved it but have found it too slow and lacking the spin needed for the new balls. Loops don't dip or curve etc. And the ones that do are coming back, which is not to my liking one single bit, particularly when I've already walked away from the table, choed!, towelled off, had a drink etc. only to see the fat, white (only white, in our club with white walls...) blob floating past. Which is to say I haven't played much with the new balls at all, and only once competitively, but my arm felt like it was gonna fall off at the end of the matches from swinging so hard in an attempt to rip third ball winners. Ergo, I need a rubber faster and spinnier for the plastique era. Was thinking of the P7, or the Powergrip. Maybe now the MX-S? (Or the MX-P, perhaps--my blade is an OSP Immune OX with an allround FH so the speed of the MX-P won't be a problem; an asset in fact.) Now that I've written all this, I can't remember my question! All hail Andy's articulate, informative and amusing reviews!
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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I've seen it at Bribhar, Dandoy, tt-shop.net, and best price at the mo is with Outshine Sports - £30 free shipping from HK here I have a good source for MX-P at the moment for 34euros + shipping, so I'm hoping that MX-S will appear on the list there soon. And there's always tibi, who pops up with Tibhar stock every so often (as long as you buy 2 sheets, obviously). Before everyone gets carried away, there is one thing which nags at me with MX-S and that's the throw. With the same blade, I get a higher throw with Tenzone Ultra, which surprised me. I'm still thinking about that, and I might do some experimentation on monday night with MX-S and TZU A/B's on the same blades - Pure Wood and Hypertouch. I want to get the comparison as direct as possible. It bothers me because I've always thought of TZU as a medium throw rubber itself, and for MX-S to be lower is a surprise. I want to rule out as much weirdness as possible before committing to a full review. But apart from that, I'm really optimistic about this one.
Yes, absolutely. There's something magnetic about MX-S for me, and it's the combination of big grip and ease of use. It simplifies lots of aspects of the game for a bang-average amateur like me, and also has a big plus as being one of the few ESN rubbers I've tried where I don't feel any sensation of slip with the new ball. Also, I should add that after the 3 hour session there wasn't a single mark on the topsheet, whereas the fresh sheet of TZU looks a little worn already after a similar length of time last week (plastic ball is rough...). It's too early to think about real reports of durability though. But the lack of outright pace would perhaps put better players than I off, and they would be better off with MX-P. I'm really interested in what Paul Drinkhall will have to say about this rubber over at TTD. He reviewed MX-P this week, and says that he will be reviewing MX-S next week. I want to know if he would switch, and if not, why. I think I can guess the answer, but it would be nice to hear it from him.
Ha! I wish. Who do you think I am? Yogi_bear???
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Good review Andy.
So, from what I've read so far, it seems that MX-S is not just a less boosted MX-P but it has a different topsheet (with shorter, wider pimples) as well?
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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This is going to be one of the big issues for a lot of players when adapting to the new ball. If you're already using a high-spin, big grip rubber with cell, where do you go with plastic? Pretty much everything on the market will still feel...something less when you switch. MX-S feels like the highest grip ESN I've ever used, but it still doesn't fully bridge the gap you feel when you move to plastic. It's just the best ESN I've tried so far. I haven't used any rubber yet which makes playing with plastic feel like cell (and nothing ever will, IMO), but I have had a whole bunch of other niggly issues - slippage being one. You can solve that with a tacky rubber, but that's not for everyone. MX-S solves it by being scary grippy, so that's a plus point. Ultimately, to be fully efficient with the plastic ball at the moment (based on how it plays now), get busy driving. High-arc loops need to be really high quality to avoid giving the opponent an easy counter or smash - it's just too easy to hit through the ball now. They aren't obsolete shots by any means, but if you drop a high loop short then you will be punished more regularly than before (when perhaps the big spin of your shot would get you out of jail). There's a player in my club who I could pressurise by mixing up big, high loops with flatter drives. Now he absolutely nails the loops, and laughs about it after because it's so much easier. So perhaps the trend for equipment is to combine high spin with a lower arc, in anticipation of this being an emerging style/requirement. I would usually say that a lower arc reduces your target window and lowers consistency, but there's something about MX-S in particular I see - a consistently tighter arc from any distance. Even when engaged in loop-loop from 2 metres away the ball doesn't go really high, but it always seems to land. The lack of aggressive elastic snap from the rubber simplifies your stroke selection and there are no surprises. Just solid shots from everywhere.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Yup, it's a different sponge too - not just an unboosted MX-P sponge. This reminds me of Donic's slight abuse of the Bluefire line where they introduced JP02 and JP01 Turbo, even though they had a totally different sponge type to JP03 and JP01 (or Joola with Rhyzm-P, which had very little to do with the original Rhyzms). Fair enough that Tibhar feel that this is still an Evolution rubber in some way (and it does share some characteristics), but MX-S has arrived there by different means than simply taking MX-P and slightly adjusting it. They've taken the currently-available ESN gear and come up with MX-S. The main difference between MX-S and the original -P range is the lack of catapult. Combined with the massive grip, you're encouraged to just keep swinging harder and increasing your own wrist snap to load the ball up. You don't have to worry (or care) so much about sending the ball long. This rubber wants you to play a full, proper stroke and rewards you with warm hugs and biscuits if you mess up. It's highly forgiving. EL-S and FX-S might restore some of the catapult feel, if they ever appear.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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qualizon
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so it sounds more like the requirement of playing a traditional chinese rubber? may be a bit easier to adopt?
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2336 |
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Maybe it's a rubber designed for boosting then? |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Yes, I suppose so! Obviously, without the tack. But the linear power delivery and high grip does point towards that. Maybe this is why I've taken to it so quickly.
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This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated.
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