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Tabletennis11 rubber testing reviews |
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slevin 
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 Topic: Tabletennis11 rubber testing reviewsPosted: 05/07/2015 at 9:29pm |
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For details and to sign-up to be a tester, please see here:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71281&KW=&PID=872216&title=tabletennis11-rubber-testing-signup#872216 Here is the expected set of rubbers we intend to review: Hard rubbers:
Medium and medium-soft rubbers:
Current tester list (name in bold is the current tester of the rubber):
For now, we start with Evolution MX-P and Rakza X Soft. I'll start the list for the other rubbers when I receive them from TT11
Edited by slevin - 07/06/2015 at 12:00am |
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slevin
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:37pm |
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I've finished testing MX-P and the Rakza X Soft. Shall send it to the testers on the top of the list tomorrow and shall post my reviews up in a day.
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asifgunz
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 9:45pm |
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Thank ya Mr. Slevin. Looking forward to your review as well as writing my own.
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 "I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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smackman
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 10:32pm |
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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
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asifgunz
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Posted: 05/07/2015 at 11:08pm |
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Just to see how others feel about the rubber and present my own pov.
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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slevin
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Posted: 05/10/2015 at 11:24am |
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Review: Tibhar Evolution MX-P
Hardness: 47 degrees (slightly harder than Tenergy 05, slightly softer than Donic Bluefire M1) This rubber is perhaps the only non-chinese rubber other than the Tenergy series to have had critical adoption at the pro level. Some users include Vladimir Samsonov, Bogan Tokic, Paul Drinkhall and Soumyajit Ghosh. Most of the new generation ESN rubbers seem to come with 2 main types of topsheet: hard / grippy and soft / grippy. This rubber (along with the Yasaka Rakza X) belongs to the 1st type. Additionally, this rubber feels slightly tacky when new. The advantages of hard / grippy sheets seem to be more linearity in spin delivery at the cost of perhaps slightly more effort in generating spin. The advantages of soft / grippy sheets are ease in generating spin at the cost of control (non-linearity that comes with gradual increase in effort). Anyway: some more characteristics here: Speed: Faster than Tenergy 05 and 64. Slightly slower than Bluefire M1 Short game: Excellent relative to T05 and T64. The slight tack helps. Very easy to be directionally precise and linear. Spin: Standard hard rubber characterstics - slightly more difficult to generate spin (as opposed to softer rubber) but when you apply the effort you get more spin that you would with softer rubber. Relative to other 47 - 50 degree tensor-type rubbers, it has very high spin (perhaps the most of the lot). Looping: Excellent. On hard blades like the MJ-SZLC, I get more dwell with this rubber than with T05 (which was surprising to me). Very high spin. Medium-high throw (slightly lower than that of T05). Smashing: very good - better than Tenergy 05 Blade matching: it matches very well with most blades other than very hard and / or fast blades. I like it a bit better on limba than on koto blades. |
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slevin
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Posted: 05/10/2015 at 11:36am |
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Review: Yasaka Rakza X Soft
Tested: Red, max sheet Hardness: 42.5 degrees Dimensions: 169 x 170mm Weight: 68g To me, this is a very interesting medium-soft rubber. This is because most of the newer medium-soft rubbers have soft / grippy topsheets (Bluefire JP02, Rasant Grip, Joola Maxxx P, Omega V Europe, etc). This one has a hard / grippy topsheet. The advantages of this are (a) better linearity in spin delivery (b) better synergy with sponge, and (c) better overall control. Another trait is that it plays harder than it's 42.5 degrees seem to suggest. For example, I felt that it was easier to bottom out the 45 degree Omega V Europe than the RXSoft. Spin is very good and easy to generate. The resultant arc is very tight. Throw is a touch lower than medium and very uniform. Overall, this is the best medium soft rubber I've used so far and pairs with more blades than medium-soft rubbers with soft topsheets would (you'd need harder blades for those). |
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asifgunz
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Posted: 05/10/2015 at 12:17pm |
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Slevin please check your pm
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"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629 |
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slevin
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Posted: 05/22/2015 at 5:39pm |
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Added kevo and PingPongHolic10 to the list of testers for Rasant Grip.
Added the other rubbers as available for testing (see OP). Please PM me to sign up
Edited by slevin - 05/22/2015 at 5:39pm |
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ThePongProfessor
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Posted: 05/28/2015 at 10:50am |
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Review Tibhar MX-P
Tibhar MX-P evolution caters to high-level attacking players
who have been wishing for a rubber that is a hybrid between typical Chinese and
Euro/Japanese rubbers. The very hard sponge requires significant effort from
the player to fully realize the speed potential – what you put in is what you
get out – very linear. The medium tacky top-sheet grips the ball extremely
well, rendering it particularly useful for flicks and loops. The MX-P is a fast
(but not excessively so) rubber, which provides a lot of control in the
attacking game (slightly faster than Adidas P7 and Andro Rasant Grip - slightly
slower than Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF; less spinny than P7 and RG – more similar to
TZU-SF; slightly more tacky than P7). Touch play, i.e., short serves and pushes,
requires finesse and good feeling from the player – however, the ball
trajectory is relatively flat. Overall an excellent rubber for attackers who
emphasize speed over spin and who like the feel of a hard sponge. I found this
rubber to be particularly well-suited as a BH rubber. It’s unlike any other
rubber that I have tried – the sponge hardness is that of a Chinese rubber, while
the top-sheet is like a less tacky H3 Neo (or a more tacky P7). Best feature: BH flick and topspin. I developed a big grin right
after my first couple of BH shots. The top-sheet grips the ball very well allowing
for effortless and controlled BH topspin and flicks. Serves in which the rubber
is fully engaged (half-long/long backspin and/or sidespin serves) are very
spinny. Least desirable feature: The fast and hard sponge required
significant adjustments to my short serves and pushes. And, the rubber is heavy.
Equipment used in test: Andro Temper Tech Off- blade (medium
all-wood), Adidas P7 black max and Tibhar MX-P red max. My regular equipment: Andro Temper Tech Off- Adidas P7 black
max (FH), Rasant Grip red 1.9 or 2.1 (BH). |
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slevin
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Posted: 05/28/2015 at 7:35pm |
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great review patrickhrdlicka, thanks!
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kevo
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Posted: 05/28/2015 at 8:00pm |
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Cheers, Slevin. PM'd my address.
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kevo
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Posted: 05/28/2015 at 8:01pm |
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Cheers, Slevin, pm'd my address.
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qualizon
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Posted: 05/29/2015 at 11:03pm |
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Review Rakza X Soft:
I've always use Tenergy (64 and 80fx) as backhand for all of my blades, I've tried Bluefire M2 in the past as people say it's a very good backhand rubber and it's very easy to adopt to, but for some reason I always go back to Tenergy. A few months back I tried Rakza 7 on a friend's blade, and it's a very easy to adopt to, which gave me a good impression of the Rakza series. Now, enough background. The Rakza X Soft has a different rubber texture as Tenergy obviously, and if I remember it right, the rubber texture looks quite like the Bluefire JP02. I tried the Rakza X Soft on a 7 ply blade with ZLC as a backhand rubber, and i'm surprised how easy it is to control where the ball lands. My backhand stroke tends to be too strong in a sense that sometimes the ball lands inconsistently. But with this new setup, I can just pick it up without much adjustment, and the ball lands very consistently. May be it's not as fast as my tenergy as backhand rubber, that's why it's easier to control, I also notice the ball tends to have a lower arc comparing to what I used to, and although it doesn't fall below the net, but I got a lot of net in both my rpb blocking and light loop. |
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slevin
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Posted: 06/01/2015 at 3:09pm |
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Thanks for the review qualizon!
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slevin
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Posted: 06/04/2015 at 2:45pm |
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Review: Andro Rasant Grip
So, a lot has been written about this rubber, particularly of its potential to generate spin. I tested a red Rasant Grip max which is (according to Andro) about the same hardness as Tenergy 05 and is around the same weight as well. For me, here are the main differences between the Rasant Grip and Tenergy 05:
For me, RG was a tad difficult to control in that it's output is very different when you brush vs when you use the sponge. Brushing gives high spin. Somehow, I did not like the sponge design on this rubber - it almost seems to negate some of the spin that RG's topsheet generates when you hit hard. Also, the throw gets a lot lower when you use the sponge. T05 is a lot more consistent with regards to the points above. RG is easier to control in serve-receive and blocking. Let me compare RG to two other recent 45 deg rubbers: Omega V Euro and Bluefire JP02
Basically, I find RG to be an excellent close-to-the table BH rubber IF you like low throw there. |
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ttping85
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Posted: 06/04/2015 at 4:19pm |
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Interesting. I felt that Rasant grip was way faster than T05 or JP02.
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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slevin
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Posted: 06/04/2015 at 6:04pm |
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The speed / spin ratio of RG is higher than T05 on strokes from mid-distance (so some balls do sail long) but IMHO, one can generate more powerful strokes with T05 than with RG while being in control. I find JP02 faster from mid-distance as well. I've used JP02 for 1 week. I have used up 2 sheets of RG and many T05 sheets. |
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slevin
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Posted: 06/05/2015 at 2:43pm |
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Review: Tibhar Evolution MX-S max
I was eagerly anticipating reviewing this rubber after reading all the feedback from the initial adopters. I tried it on the FH of my 94g Nittaku Barwell Fleet with a Xiom Sigma 2 Euro on the BH side. At the same time, I glued up a new MX-P on my back-up Barwell Fleet so that I could compare the two. It is heavy - around 54g cut and glued to the 158x151 blade. Brought the weight of my combo to a whopping 201g. The MX-S is rated as slightly harder than MX-P. If MX-P's sponge is around 47 degrees, MX-S sponge felt like around 50 degrees but its topsheet felt softer than MX-P's. So, all-in, I'd say MX-S feels about 1 degree harder. The sponge's pores seemed slightly smaller than those of MX-P. The topsheet seemed to be very grippy and of a very high quality. Upon playing, I was pleasantly surprised: contrary to my pre-conceptions, this rubber, though slower than MX-P, is fast! So, one would not have to worry about putting in an extra effort (so long as you're in position and you have some time). It certainly felt a touch spinnier than MX-P and the throw was a touch lower. Because of it's slightly softer topsheet, lifting backspin was very easy and the resulting opening loop is very heavy. I took it to play some 7-8 matches at the club. Here, I saw the qualities that make it a bit difficult to handle. Because it has a slightly soft topsheet (combined with a hard sponge), I felt that when I tried countering the ball (when out of position), it went into the net. One sees a similar effect while trying to lift (by looping) a low ball. It needs a level of penetration of rubber into the ball that is higher than that required by other rubbers. Which means that one would need good footwork to use this rubber. It is certainly a lot less forgiving in that regard than MX-P is but the rewards are potentially greater. Enough of comparing this with MX-P. Now let me compare it to other 50 degree rubbers I've played with (Bluefire M1 Turbo and the Rakza X). Spin: MX-S > M1T > RX Throw: M1T > RX > MX-S (RX has more constant throw, MX-S varies from being equal to RX and slightly lower than it) Speed: M1T > RX = MX-S Control (ease of use): RX >> M1T > MX-S My preference: RX > M1T > MX-S My preference (if I was training 5-7 days a week): MX-S > M1T > RX Edited by slevin - 06/05/2015 at 2:45pm |
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PingPongHolic10
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Posted: 06/05/2015 at 3:17pm |
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MX-S: soft topsheet with hard sponge? Sounds similar to the Asia series for the Xiom rubbers.
Slevin, Have you played with any of the Asia series? I have played with Vega Asia on RPB & didn't like it. (I mean it was good at most things, but not for brush looping especially with the new balls (I used it on a Rosewood V blade), perhaps it would have been better with a softer outer blade. Edited by PingPongHolic10 - 06/05/2015 at 6:29pm |
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slevin
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Posted: 06/05/2015 at 3:34pm |
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No, it isn't as soft as the Xiom line - just a bit softer than MX-P. This is an ESN new gen thing - M1T top sheet is a touch softer than M1 as well. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 06/05/2015 at 3:36pm |
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Omega V Asia was recommended to me as an MX-S alternative by AndySmith. The one thing that MX-S does, in addition to encouraging improved footwork, is encourage harder contact. That's why I am going to keep playing with both MX-S and T05 - I figure that if I can master both, that will crystallize my game.
MX-S is definitely easier to use on a slower/softer blade. In fact, I stopped using the max version completely because of the weight and the speed. Edited by NextLevel - 06/05/2015 at 3:38pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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slevin
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Posted: 06/11/2015 at 10:31am |
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Review: Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo
Max Black, 50 degree hardness Dimensions: 169x170 Weight: 74.5g This is the latest generation offering from Donic. It is of the same generation (and hardness) a Yasaka's Rakza X and Tibhar's Evolution MX-S. Unlike the early reports of Donic Acuda Blue P1, the M1T seems to be of the 'high spin' variety. At first glance of the topsheet, you have to exclaim a big 'Wow'. Very high quality (like that of MX-S) and very grippy. Just as MX-S has a slightly harder sponge and a slightly softer topsheet than MX-P, the M1T has a slightly harder sponge and a slightly softer topsheet than M1. The overall feeling of hardness and dwell were similar to that of the MX-S. At my regular 70% power (while FH looping), I found it's speed and spin to be a shade less than MX-P. It's speed is at about that of T05. Harder rubbers need slightly more racket speed to bring out the spin and this is no different (although its slightly softer topsheet makes it easier to generate spin with than M1). This means that players that generate reasonably fast racket speed can really bring out the beast in this rubber. Just like the MX-S, it felt better than MX-P for looping underspin - it was very easy to lift the ball and the resulting loops were very spinny (more than MX-P). Great short game, as expected. The difference between this rubber and MX-S is in ease of play. The M1T is more linear than the MX-S and is less demanding when you're a bit late to the ball. It's throw is perhaps a shade lower than that of the MX-P but is higher than that of the MX-S. So, this is a great rubber for those who want:
I've taken this video link from seguso's public signature in his profile. In this, the player in red is using Bluefore M1 Turbo max on FH Edited by slevin - 06/11/2015 at 10:39am |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 06/23/2015 at 12:43am |
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I've stuck with MX-S in 2.0mm and gone back and forth with it vs. Tenergy 05. The rubber is actually a brush looping rubber and I am now beginning to see how my misconceptions about the rubber influenced how I was using it vs. how I could be using it. When you are out of position with MX-S, you are supposed to brush as best as you can for maximum arc. The results can be astonishing.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ThePongProfessor
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Posted: 06/25/2015 at 2:57am |
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Review: Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo Let’s just say, I am not impressed by the Donic Bluefire M1
Turbo. This thing is beyond heavy (cut, it is 6g more than a Rasant Grip and 4g more than
MX-P) and has a clikety-clakety sound, not unlike how I imagine a pan would
sound like should anyone decide to play TT with it. The sponge and the topsheet
are very hard (hence the associations to the 729). The plasticky topsheet is
very tacky but less so than a brandnew H3 Neo. BH/FH topspin rallies: the ball has a flat trajectory; close
to the table the rubber seems rather slow (not faster than Adidas P7). Away
from the table, it is as if a catapult is activated, making it difficult to
judge the length on the ball (as fast as Tenzone Ultra SF). I found straight
hitting away from the table hard to control. Lift against backspin: The tacky surface grips the ball very
well and this feature is very helpful in all facets of the game that require
lift, that is FH/BH flip and FH/BH topspin against backspin. The rubber shines
in this area. Short game: easy to keep pushes short and low. Ironically, despite the very tacky topsheet, it is
difficult to produce large amounts of spin with this rubber as the hard
sponge/sheet prevent the ball from fully engaging with the rubber. My serves and 3rd
ball topspins had noticeably less spin to them than my regular equipment (Rasant
Grip and TZU-SF) or the Tibhar MX-P, which has a softer topsheet. I am guessing this was designed with the intention of being a hybrid between typical Chinese and Euro/Japanese rubbers, but it feels
more like a Chinese rubber. Consistent with this, the rubber requires a lot of effort
from the player to fully realize its potential. I think this rubber is suitable
for Chinese-style All/OFF players who don’t mind heavy rubbers. However, I think
that there are many (less expensive) alternative rubbers on the market which fit the bill equally
well, if not better. In my book, the MX-P is a more attractive hybrid rubber, due to its softer topsheet. Equipment used in test: Andro Temper Tech Off-
blade (medium all-wood), Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo black max and Yasaka Rakza X
soft red max. My regular equipment: Andro Temper Tech Off, Adidas
Tenzone Ultra SF black max (FH), Rasant Grip red 1.9 or 2.1 (BH). Reviewer background: US
rating 2000+, all-round style with equal emphasis on spin and speed. I have
tested ~10+ rubbers over the past year (T05 fx, T80, T64, Stiga Calibra LT,
Stiga Calibra LT Spin, H3 Neo, Andro Rasant Grip, Andro Rasant Powergrip,
Adidas P7, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, Xiom Sigma Europe I, Tibhar MX-P, Yasaka
Rakza X soft and Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo). Edited by patrickhrdlicka - 06/25/2015 at 12:29pm |
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slevin
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Posted: 06/25/2015 at 7:02am |
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Great review, patrickhrdlicka!
IMHO, MX-S, M1T & RX (Rakza 10) are all harder than MX-P & the 1st 2 are heavier. For both those reasons, players used to 45 deg or less rubbers or 48 deg or less cut weight of their sheets might not find them enticing. I think that they are possible improvements / candidates for those (like seguso, NL, etc) who are already used to hard rubbers. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 06/25/2015 at 7:06am |
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FWIW, I use MX-S in 2.0mm. Max is just not worth it for what I do. I personally would have preferred to test the heavier/harder rubbers in 2.0mm but they are what they are.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ThePongProfessor
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Posted: 06/26/2015 at 2:44am |
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Review: Yasaka Rakza
X Soft
This rubber strikes me as a mix between Adidas P7 and Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, in terms of speed and spin, respectively. It is a well-behaved, uncontroversial, but perhaps also a little bit boring rubber. It does everything well, but nothing outstandingly so. It reminds me of the role that Mark V (another Yasaka rubber) had in the range of rubbers 20 years ago. A very safe choice, but not necessarily the best choice. The sponge and topsheet are medium/medium soft and seem to be of good quality. The surface only has little tack to it. Cut, a max weighs 2g less than a 1.9 mm Rasant Grip or a max P7. BH/FH topspin rallies: the rubber produces a medium throw
with sufficient safety over the net. Topspins further away from the table have
a nice feel and soft clicky sound to them, as the ball is engaged by the
sponge. It produces similar speed as the P7, but with less spin than P7 or RG, being
more in the ballpark of TZU-SF. Lift against backspin: At slow speeds (flip), you need to have good technique/timing to safely bring the ball over the net, due to the
absence of topsheet tack. At greater speeds, i.e., loops where the ball digs
into the sponge, this is a non-issue, and the ball has a nice arc over the net.
Short game: I found that my pushes popped up a bit, requiring adjustment in technique. No biggie though. It is easy to keep serve short and relatively spinny,
although again, the serves are less spinny than with my regular rubbers (Rasant
Grip, P7, or TZU-SF). I have a hard time identifying the distinguishing parameter
that will set the Rakza X soft apart from the many other choices in this busy
segment of the rubber market. Don’t get me wrong - I think it is an excellent
rubber for beginners all the way up to 2200-2300 USATT rated players, in no
small part because it weighs so little and appears to be made of good quality
materials. However, I anticipate that very highly skilled players will request additional
speed and/or spin, which this rubber doesn’t deliver. Equipment used in test: Andro Temper Tech Off-
blade (medium all-wood), Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo black max and Yasaka Rakza X
soft red max. My regular equipment: Andro Temper Tech Off, Adidas
Tenzone Ultra SF black max (FH), Rasant Grip red 1.9 or 2.1 (BH). Reviewer background: US rating 2000+, all-round style with equal emphasis on spin and speed. I have tested ~15 rubbers over the past year (T05 fx, T80, T64, Stiga Calibra LT, Stiga Calibra LT Spin, H3 Neo, Andro Rasant Grip, Andro Rasant Powergrip, Adidas P7, Adidas Tenzone Ultra SF, Xiom Sigma Europe I, Tibhar MX-P, Yasaka Rakza X soft, and Donic Bluefire M1 Turbo). |
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Rich215
Premier Member
Joined: 02/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3488 |
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Posted: 06/30/2015 at 11:12am |
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Sorry everyone for my delay in testing and review report of the Rasant Grip rubber. I had a very unexpected long stay at a hospital with a family member and just got back after 3 weeks. I played with the rubber last night for a couple matches on my Juic B. Alpha. Rakza soft 2.0 on one side and this Rasant Grip 2.1 on the other. Initial impressions were quite favorable, but I need to play again as I did not have enough time to really get a solid feel of it.
I also will change my 2.0 Rakza soft to Max R7 soft for tomorrow nights matches. I think the sponge on my old R7S 2.0 is too dead and lacked dwell to compare looping and general feel. I will send the Rasant Grip on Edit....I see kevo got some RG from another forum member. Is "PingPongHolic10" next? Edited by Rich215 - 06/30/2015 at 11:41am |
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ttping85
Gold Member
Joined: 04/09/2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1061 |
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Posted: 06/30/2015 at 11:29am |
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Well bluefire JP02 is my backhand rubbers since January and I tried RG several times. JP02 is perfect speed and control ratio for my backhand while I have a hard time to control the speed of the RG on my BH. On the opposite on my FH I like the speed of the RG, similar to Bluefire M2, while the speed of JP02 is not sufficient for my FH.
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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
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asifgunz wrote: