Make your forehand loop even more powerful!

But the bear is not the problem.  The problem is Lau_hb's suggestion that this is about Extension of the wrist: breaking the natural angle in order to produce more power.  In his blog, he writes

If you lifted your hand up, while keeping the wrist resting on the table and then slapped the table, then you understand the most important role your wrist has to be playing when doing a forehand topspin

 But this is not what happens with the bear.  With a completely relaxed arm, the wrist moves in the same plane as the whole arm is swinging.

Try this:

Hold your arm horizontal from the shoulder, palm up (towards the ceiling); drop your arm then rapidly return it to the horizontal.  What does your wrist do at the moment the arm changes direction from falling to rising? It snaps in the same plane as the arm is moving. The wrist stays parallel to the floor throughout.

Do this again, only this time with the palm facing forwards (neither up nor down).  What does the wrist do this time?  Again it snaps in the same plane as the arm moves, with the wrist staying vertical to the floor.

When the arm is perfectly relaxed, the natural movement of the wrist is in line with the swing of the arm.  When playing a forehand loop, the blade is in the same plane as the wrist and the whip naturally happens in this same plane.  This looks to me to be the natural bend we see in WLQ's wrist.  The only way for this not to be true is if the blade face is opened on the backswing.  Then the wrist can Extend/Flex.

Are we now saying that the face of the blade should not be directly aligned with the plane that the arm is following?

Off topic: I mentioned a resemblance with my wrist position and I noticed a couple of Australian posters. So speaking of which, do you think I resemble a younger Aussie billionaire Clive Palmer?

www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/clive-palmer-finds-value-in-love-family/story-e6freoof-1225761907189 

This is a perfectly timed backswing and stroke, demonstrating the correct relationship between wrist and forearm. 

But for me I have a bh grip like mizutani and forcing myself to cock back my wrist intentionally has helped a lot. I don't know for others but for me practicing in this forced fashion for three months has given me a cock of the wrist that is now natural and I do it without any thought.  I think (atleast for me) relaxed means I have practiced the same stroke over and over again in various situations and I have confidence in my stroke so I don't have to think about my stroke, I just do it. Obviously my cock is not as exaggerated as when i first started and I think that is good but it still looks like my wrist is broken when i do my backswing and i gotta say I think its the way to go.. there are many pros that have some version of the broken wrist stroke.. and i think there is no real risk of injury with cocking back your wrist. It is a very natural stroke. It only gets dangerous when you cock back and do the thing that the OP suggests, to lift. that makes it very unnatural and you can understand why someone could get injured. But that is why I am saying both are different strokes and using the wrists in different ways. I use both loop strokes but now I am using my JM stroke a lot more for better control and placement and using the former stroke to hit a more powerful loop. I think with many people they don't understand you don't need to hit the loop with 100% strength all the time and try to over power the opponent. You can play chess with each stroke and then at the most opportune moment to hit it with everything you have.. Of course pros seem to be hitting each shot with almost 100% of their strength but thats because they are pros (and we know they aren't hitting 100%, it just seems like it)

@ argothman, dude I love that HK player too.. that pp station youtube channel is da bomb! hehe.. yeah he doesn't show the wrist movement and depending on the player some have an exaggerated wrist movement and some have a slight one. If you look at all the top players and watch their fh loop you can see it is there. (Prime examples are #1. RSM #2. Jun mizutani etc..) Why they don't teach it is because if you can't do a normal swing properly, it will mess you up major time. You need to be able to hit one normally without any wrist action first like 100 times in a row to learn this properly. One key difference from american players and korean players (or maybe coaching style) is that in korean coaching you need to kind of 'master' one skill to go on to the next. Like when I first learned, the first thing you learn in korean coaching is footwork. They don't care about teaching you bh, fh, loop whatever. Footwork is key. Then they teach you fh and bh and you combine that with footwork. They make you do that for MONTHS (and in korea you go everyday for lessons) when you have finally 'mastered' that then you learn the push and so on. You never are let to go on to the next level until you 'mastered' in the eyes of your coach, the strokes and footwork. That is why korean players are tough because they have sound techniques and american players have all sorts of different quirks which sometimes throws me off my game. (I had one basement playing fellow that would sorta hop everytime he looped. It was sort of a halfloop- half slap.. but with his 6-3 frame it was a nasty shot. But when I first saw it, I laughed so hard for a couple games.. couldn't get over how funny it looked but he was really good.)

I think because of this teaching method I have a very correct swing that can be replicated in my sleep and when you have a correct swing I think that is where you can improvise and improve as long as you don't mess with your swing. 

How I learned this swing method is from my partner. I was losing to him and frustrated a couple of months ago I said 'whats wrong with me why can't i win against you.' First thing he said was footwork. TT is a foot and leg game (I think that is what asians say). Many koreans play jpen style which requires great footwork, the strength of his game is that he is like a freakin nadal playing TT. He gets almost every shot and I hate it. hahahaahahahahahah Even though he is my friend sometimes I hate him so badly for getting impossible shots after impossible shots and it is all due to his footwork. Second he said my swing was too long winded and that I needed to compact my swing he explained it like being a boxer hitting lots of jabs and then going for the KO for EVERY point. I understood that but when I tried playing like that I told him my shots were so weak and non-spiny if I hit like that and thats when he told me its all in the wrist bro.. 

I think normally coaches don't teach the wrist until very much later as yes it is the phd. And trust me I ain't a phd in TT but I wanted to cheat and learn so I begged him to teach me. My partner only knew how to  use the wrist because his father-in-law is still a korean national TT coach and he learned from the best. 

Anyways.. I suggest that if you don't have your fh loop down pat where you can rally atleast 100 times no problem, don't do it. But if you can, then this is definitely the next step and learning this has lead me to win against my partner for the first time last week (after trying for one and a half years ahahahahah)

Neways, if you can get a coach to teach you that is the best I think. I like to tinker but improvements like these can actually become a detriment to your fh stroke.. so i would suggest to becareful. But yeah it has done wonders to my game and I fully recommend it.

Cheers

+1 absolutely how i learned it as well.