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Stiga Carbonado 145 Review: Beware!

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slevin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 9:55am
The concern I have with ordering Stiga (and hence spending around $100 to take part in their lottery) is that even if there seems nothing wrong visually with the blade,
  1. I can't trust that the inner veneers won't be flawed anymore. This is what bad reputation does.
  2. I can't rely on there being no problems (such as delamination of veneers) in the future as that has been a fairly common issue.
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ahsq View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 1:04pm
yea i feel you slevin, same crap with my xiom vega pro. I found the newer generations of high ends lacking in QC. 
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

yea i feel you slevin, same crap with my xiom vega pro. I found the newer generations of high ends lacking in QC. 
you might have gotten s bad XVP but unlike Stigs, Xiom does not have a bad reputation at all in blades. And the Vega Pro ain't high end - you can easily get one for less than $100.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

Originally posted by ahsq ahsq wrote:

yea i feel you slevin, same crap with my xiom vega pro. I found the newer generations of high ends lacking in QC. 
you might have gotten s bad XVP but unlike Stigs, Xiom does not have a bad reputation at all in blades. And the Vega Pro ain't high end - you can easily get one for less than $100.

145 aint high end neither, its about $35 more than XVP. Donic seem to be good.
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 3:18pm
Ahsq, again, sorry for your unfortunate experience with xvp.
You out of everyone in this forum who have tried or owned an xiom blade, have come across the bad quality blade by xiom.

And you did try to even out the zeph thread with a cutter, correct?

Stigas carbonado has been revieqed by a few people now regarding the qc issue and seems to go even further downhill.



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Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 3:23pm
nail clipper, artist knife, box cutter, nose trimmer...yea all that and some more. 
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 3:36pm
How was the blade before that?


"I do not have any idols. I am my own idol." - Zhang Jike

Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 3:39pm
it was fine, still fine now, the quality should be there but I havent play enough to tell. 

The appearance is sh!t
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 4:07pm
I dont mean to offend you in any way. Rather bring it to the attention of the forumers and those that might read into xioms quality.

So, it was more of a voluntary action, unfortunate but voluntary, that led to blade deformaty.
Whereas stigas carbonado quality is borderline questionable right out of the box.


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Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ahsq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 4:09pm
if you read my initial post from somewhere else, the threads come out by themselves. I tried to trim them but none of the equipments were sharp enough, so the threads still hang out. 
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped
Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 5:37pm
i had asked you to not try to trim them in the original post.




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Feedback: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71761&PN=1#905629
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ashishsharmaait Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/02/2015 at 8:00pm
I have 2 Xiom Vega Euro blades. They are both top quality. I also got some threads coming out of the sides, but thats just because I spilled glue on the sides while gluing and change my edge tape very often.
...but I wouldn;t compare Xiom's Vega quality with Stiga Carbonado's.
Xiom was perfect out of the box and is still perfect after I cut the 4-5 threads coming out of the edges using a sharp scissor. Carbonado was suspect when I got it. I wonder what will happen when I glue rubbers 4-5 times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07/03/2015 at 10:57am
In the last 2 years I bought 4 Xiom blades (that were mentioned on this thread) and a 145  all top quality then and now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote capitanharlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 11:39am
Originally posted by ashishsharmaait ashishsharmaait wrote:

Edit: Added high resolution photos of defects.

Images:
1. You can see the joint and the different directions of the grain. Both faces have a joint (WTF!)
2. You can see the knots and a slight rough mark on the other face
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8bW96RkF5SjFnUTl3WklSV2FjcFVZN2o4Y2Q4/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8RkItRXVGMzFIQnRNR2NROWYzNnFpR0ZMWFE4/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8aUNEUjVIclh4OUliTkpIZzd2RFhpeDUxck1R/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2OvJBMREql8aDdCV0R2d1B6WlRWSVdiLU1JVkVCMFZITWtR/view?usp=sharin



I can unfortunately confirm that my Carbonado 145 tto has the same defects.
Two knots on one side, close to the bat's edge, and both faces are clearly made from two different wood layers, jointed together.
I just wrote an email to Stiga, expressing my disappointment for the low build quality, for what it's worth.
I can post you the pictures later.

Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 11:52am
Should be no surprise that Stiga's build quality is poor. This has been going on for years. 

Carbonados do play nice though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote capitanharlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 11:56am
I guess you are right.
As an old (sigh) owner of a very nice 1978 Hans Alser defensive wood, it has been a terrible blow for me...

Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/24/2015 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by capitanharlock capitanharlock wrote:

I guess you are right.
As an old (sigh) owner of a very nice 1978 Hans Alser defensive wood, it has been a terrible blow for me...

Confused



Well, I should clarify: it should be no surprise for nerds like me who try a lot of blades and hang out at table tennis forums.

But for someone in your position, I can certainly understand being sorely disappointed and surprised to learn of Stiga's decline in product quality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote capitanharlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 6:38am
Here are the pictures of my Carbonado 145.

The joints:






The knots:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 10:24am
That's what I often see when I pulled the rubbers off high end premades that are supposed to be made with real blades and rubbers. Often they've used knotty blades that they don't want to sell uncovered.

At least those buyers get a discount.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LethalForehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 10:33am
People calm down! those joints have been there on all the stiga blades and not only those of stiga but several other manufacturers too. They have been there ever since I started TT, on Stiga, DHS, Zasaka, etc. blades. Does it affect play quality? Well, do you have 2700level loops to tell?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DreiZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 11:10am
Originally posted by LethalForehand LethalForehand wrote:

People calm down! those joints have been there on all the stiga blades and not only those of stiga but several other manufacturers too. They have been there ever since I started TT, on Stiga, DHS, Zasaka, etc. blades. Does it affect play quality? Well, do you have 2700level loops to tell?


Here we go... Found the person that will say if you don't have a 2700+ loop you won't be able to tell the difference... So I guess I'm not entitled to a quality product if I shell out $100+ for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 11:36am
If this was a $35 blade it would be a non-issue. But its Stiga's Flagship $200 blade! For that price, they need to put the knots on another blade. LOL

I also noticed a joint on the handle of my previous Clipper CC. There was a horizontal joint on the middle ply right where the handle connected to the blade face. Confused


Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 11/25/2015 at 11:36am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote capitanharlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 11:47am
Originally posted by LethalForehand LethalForehand wrote:

People calm down! those joints have been there on all the stiga blades and not only those of stiga but several other manufacturers too. They have been there ever since I started TT, on Stiga, DHS, Zasaka, etc. blades. Does it affect play quality? Well, do you have 2700level loops to tell?


I've never seen a thing like that on ANY of my blades: I own many old Stigas and Butterflies, a new Animus Diana, and I've seen so many other pictures of blades on different forums. Neither of them presents those defects (actually now I've noticed that some Stigas do).

In this case we are talking of a top of the line Stiga blade, costing around 170$.

I don't care if this is affecting the play, but when I buy some sports gear, usually I'd like to have some defect free stuff.

I bet you wouldn't be happy to buy a baseball bat who's been produced in three pieces glued together, even if (and it's a BIG if), this shouldn't affect your play.

Wink


Edited by capitanharlock - 11/25/2015 at 11:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote capitanharlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 11:55am
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

If this was a $35 blade it would be a non-issue. But its Stiga's Flagship $200 blade! For that price, they need to put the knots on another blade. LOL


Absolutely.

Apparently quality control is not Stiga's primary concern.
Neither communication with customers, since I sent them an email two days ago, and nobody replied.
It's funny that they proudly write "Made in Sweden" on the blade tag, maybe next time I'd better choose a good , old "made in China" cheap blade.

Ouch


Edited by capitanharlock - 11/25/2015 at 11:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/25/2015 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by capitanharlock capitanharlock wrote:

It's funny that they proudly write "Made in Sweden" on the blade tag, maybe next time I'd better choose a good , old "made in China" cheap blade.

Ouch

Well Yasaka's Made in Sweden blades play just as good as Stiga, but their price tags more modestly reflect their QC.



Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 11/25/2015 at 12:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LethalForehand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2015 at 2:42am
What I believe differently is that having a joint like that on the top ply is not a defect but rather part of the normal manufacturing process. At least I trust Stiga enough to believe so. If its indeed not a defect than you don't need to worry about it being present on a flagship blade.

I worried about it several years ago myself when I discovered such joints, but i never could feel an inconsistency in how the blade plays there, so I'm just not worried anymore.  Of course one wants a perfect beauty when investing into an expensive blade, but after all its just going to be covered with rubber and played with. To me what matters is how it plays.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rickywinataa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2015 at 12:02pm
Personally, I don't really care much about the blade isn't made out of one sheet of wood. My nittaku acoustic has something like that around the acoustic logo on the blade. 

For me, as long as it doesn't affect the performance / feeling of the wood, the joints don't present a bigger risk of splinter and it's not downright ugly, I won't fret about it. 

There is indeed a reason why I'm a butterfly fanboy when it comes to blade LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote janekb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2015 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by LethalForehand LethalForehand wrote:

People calm down! those joints have been there on all the stiga blades and not only those of stiga but several other manufacturers too. They have been there ever since I started TT, on Stiga, DHS, Zasaka, etc. blades. Does it affect play quality? Well, do you have 2700level loops to tell?
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good job,good job
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/2015 at 12:08pm
I'm not all that familiar with blade making but if you join two plies, shouldn't one get slightly different bounces on the two parts of the blade?
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