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Why do the Chinese top players use H3??? |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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which fact do you swear on?
There is obviously no evidence indeed. Edited by chop4ever - 07/12/2015 at 9:49am |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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I'm speechless...I'm offering information that many people outside China would like to know but I get attacked this way? lol People sure are skeptical. The head coach of the Shanghai team told me all this, if anybody is curious enough to know. I don't know what kind of evidence I can give lol. It's not like I can walk up to Ma Long and say "hey dude, peel off your rubber so that I can take a picture of it and upload to a forum full of skeptics." It's up to anybody to believe what they want, and honestly, this is common knowledge in the teams here in China. That's why players in the provincial teams are trying to make friends with national team players: they can get rubbers that can't be obtained from the provincial teams.
Why is it so hard for people to believe this?
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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Because, that such a belief kills our pocket for nothing and makes DHS to be super rich. |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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tack_and_grip
Member Joined: 05/19/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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My two cents: Tacky and grippy (i.e. jap/euro) rubbers are different. But TT is a game of more than just rubbers. So you can say that the choice of rubbers is both for a reason and a matter of habit. I believe DHS do manufacture different versions/grades of the same make. But what difference it makes and how vary from person to to person. I guess it's like $500 vs $5K DSLR cameras
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stevenjlyang
Member Joined: 01/29/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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1. they are accustomed to h3
2. they are sponsored by DHS
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ZJK ALC 90g: T80 + T05FX
Boll ALC 89g: AIROC M + Calibra LT Spin |
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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and well said tack_and_grip :)
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vanjr
Gold Member Joined: 08/19/2004 Location: Corpus Christi Status: Offline Points: 1368 |
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I for one am not attacking you. Just discussing. Can we agree to disagree? I suspect the truth is probably a little bit of what you are saying, but I still do not believe that any European/Japanese team or players could not get the best DHS sheets available if they really wanted them. I suspect the Chinese know that their dominance is not based on equipment and I doubt the government is blocking such "classified' top secret rubber. I certainly agree with others that H3 is used primarily due to contracts/sponsorship and by the fact that top players from China have used it in a the past and we all want to use what the stars use. I also doubt that there is a higher grade tenergy only available to the Japanese team:) |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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To which I would add they are accustomed to rubbers in the same general category H3 from a very young age. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I for one don't have that much trouble believing it about DHS and CNT, but I just don't think it matters all that much (for the question that the OP raised). At the end of the day it's still a Hurricane rubber and as such it will be very different from what would be comfortable for any European player or any player who has always played with Japanese rubbers. Even if the provincial rubbers can't get the same rubbers that are available to CNT players, most of these players also use some other form of Hurrican on their FH side. Why???? Because they grew up playing with that kind of thing. As for top secret Tenergy only available to Japan team, I seriously would doubt that they would not give Timo Boll pretty much whatever he wants (or any of their other elite sponsored players). They have a personal commercial relationship with him that goes back decades. |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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Im with MLfan here and from the beginning its no secret the CNT gets special H3s and H2s. If you cant have that sink into your head then you live in another dimension where commercial freedom is allowed.
All the "national" H3s out there are 99% fake. If anyone happens to get a REAL one, its either gifted or sold from a CNT member. Makes you wanna be brothers with the CNT dont ya:D
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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...and yea a REAL H3 national makes a world's difference.
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Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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It makes such a world of difference that Chinese players who can't get the National rubbers still use the Provincial and Commercial rubbers instead of Tenergy.
In the end, you use what you get the best results and subjective feel with. The whole Coke formula secrecy thing is unneeded to answer the question. You are still going to beat and lose to at least 95% of the same players you beat and lose to even f you adapt hour current technique to a new rubber. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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trust me on this, NO Chinese team members use commercial DHS H3s.
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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So you mean they have never used anything but National all their life? And if they forget their paddle at home and go see a friend who has a n H3 commercial hanging around, they will not even knock around with the H3 commercial because they have no idea how to play with it? |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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you and others need to stop the nick picks. chill.
I am talking about in general terms here. In their official trainings and such..... |
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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How many national DHS rubbers have you used ahsq? And I don't mean the "centre of the sheet" nationals MLFan mentioned - I mean the super-secret custom-made designed-by-Elvis-aliens-and-delivered-by-bigfoot-in-a-UPS-uniform nationals?
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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0 obviously, i cannot get any as I am not a CNT member, lol no where near that level.
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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rxng
Member Joined: 09/12/2008 Location: Hong Kong Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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I think the answer is simple:
1. H3 is a good FH rubber with great features ( forget the QC of H3 in the market ) 2. H3 fits the style of FH of the Chinese players 3. Most of them use H3 for FH. |
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Matt Pimple
Gold Member Joined: 12/03/2012 Location: Phoenix Status: Offline Points: 1995 |
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???
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14849 |
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I can also say that no Chinese players are using Tibhar blades or 1 ply hinokis. What does that mean? That they only use blades that the rest of us will never be able to get? Rubber is different so I am being a bit facetious, but those guys have adapted to what they use. Samsonov has been able to survive in the top 15 without Tenergy. There is only so much you can give the rubber.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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ask me this question 5 year later when I befriend ML.
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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Me too! Life is sad. Much crying, But anyway, the CNT/DHS threads always go down this route. People state things without personal experience or proof, and the doubters must be cray cray, no? Personally, I can see that in any big batch of rubbers DHS make there could be better cuts than others, or sheets which fail QC and fall down the National-Provincial-Commercial slope. Makes sense. I can also picture custom runs - softer topsheets, harder sponges, tackiness adjustments. Also possible. But as much as that seems possible to me, I wouldn't state it as fact because I lack proof. And proof is incredibly hard to provide on a forum like this, even if you had it. If you posted a pic of ML's custom H3 right now, how would we know it isn't just a cheap knock-off? What would people accept anyway? I'd take video footage of Ma Long showing us his custom H3 Blue Sponge and explaining how he specifies the properties for DHS. Not going to happen though, is it? So skeptical responses to MLFan's posts are inevitable. Also, knowing what we know and what we don't know, I don't know how anyone can even state with authority how different ML's ninja custom H3 is to others of the National/Provincial/Commercial variety. My gut feel is - not so much, just tailored in slight ways, not a massive departure from the H3 family as a whole. Not a "world away". The main difference is more likely to be the level of boosting applied IMO rather than some magical stuff baked into the rubber itself, but that's just my random baseless statement of the day. About the OT - my opinion is that the CNT use H3 because there is a philosophy at work behind their equipment selection, and that is why you don't see many europeans using it. The whole mentality of the high-level chinese cultural approach to TT is brutal, full-body, attack, crush, big swings, incredible footwork, bang bang bang. And this is tied to their selection of H3-type as their FH rubber. Put H3 (of any variety) onto a high level euro pro's blade and they would struggle to generate speed. Put T05 onto the CNT's forehands and they'd be blasting everything long. Given time they'd all adjust (and the european would likely injure themselves doing so) of course. But for the CNT it's symbiotic - they use H3 because their technique and game mentality is built around its use. And it's obviously a successful arrangement - if it didn't work then they'd be using something else which did.
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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sorry if I gave the impression that I used one. I have used the commercial H3s, they are lousy in every aspect. No way in hell would the CNT dare use them to excel in any competition.
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Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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AndySmith
Premier Member Joined: 11/12/2008 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4378 |
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You being unable to use a commercial H3 doesn't convince me. Sorry. edit - did you boost yours?
Edited by AndySmith - 07/13/2015 at 11:28am |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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I get your points. you failed to mention something MLfan mentioned. There is much political involvements inside the CNT, control gov't and DHS. something is in the grey area. ANYWAYS, each person in this forum has beliefs on his own. Some side with nonexclusive customs, some side with exclusive customs. I think I will put this topic behind me as I dont benefit with arguments online. Its time to play PP with what I have.
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
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I wont convince you until you play with me. sometimes having a skill set elevates a person's attitude on others, much like those old ancient chinese kung fu masters "oooh I can whop you into a pulp"...I say to them"and I have an uzi." no. QC was 1/10.
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FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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Haha, no problem. Everybody's entitled to his/her beliefs. The CNT use H3 because of spin, not because of contracts/sponsorships/whatnot. The spin that is produced from H3 is harder to block when compared to grippy rubbers because tacky rubbers make the ball go downwards instead of forwards when it hits the table.
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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I have used a tensor(Adidas P7 & Ultra tenzone sf) when i first started playing again last year and was still using the celluloid ball. Spin was adequate until our club changed to the new polyball. Then i felt like my loops werent as spinny and missing the higher arc. My coach and many of our clubmates use H3 neo. So i changed to H3 neo and felt like OMG, the spin is back as well as the high arc. Problem with H3 is that the rubber is unplayable unboosted.
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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And the CNT use H3 because of what its spin can do to the ball. Spin produced by H3 makes the ball go downwards, not forwards. Also, service and short game is better due to sticky topsheet. These are the main reasons for using H3.
As for Timo Boll, I have no idea what tenergy he plays with because I only care about the CNT lol. But it may very well be the tenergy that the japanese team gets. |
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